We won in spite of Jordan getting on guys - Pippen

[3ba11]

I agree with Micku that Pippen's way of doing things is going to backfire with people. The public is more likely to come away from this thinking "Geez Jordan led that headcase to so many rings..." rather than "Pippen was as important as Jordan." Neither of course is a true statement but people are more likely to come away thinking the first. This book sours people's views on Pippen IMO.

the historical record shows that Pippen is a headcase:

* he never hit a big shot in 2 decades

* he claimed to have a "migraine" that tricked off the 1990 title (headcase)

* he was TARGETED by opponents like the Bad Boys or 92' Knicks as someone that could be broken (16 on 40% vs those teams)

* he sat out in 1994 (historic choke) and committed a dumb foul on Hubert Davis... and had a horrible Game 7

* he lost a 17 point lead in the 4th quarter to trick off the 2000 title

* he missed critical FT's all the time, like right before Reggie Miller's historic game-winner over Jordan in 98' that nearly won the series and tricked off the 98' title

* peers like Shaq and Barkley say Pippen was weak mentally... ditto Isiah

So Jordan carried a headcase to 6 titles - MJ had to "raise" and carry a sniveling, immature, low-producing player to 6 chips.. there's never been a bigger statistical gap between 1st and 2nd option or mental gap

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You didn't debunk anything Kaniva. You keep conflating scenarios. Stay with me here. We're comparing Jordan and Pippens situation to others. Jordan and Pippen were close in age. But Jordan was obviously established and was there first. So you have to apply the same concept to Jordan and Shaq or Shaq and Jordan. Now here's where you mess up. You stated that Shaq respected MJ when he (Shaq) was a kid. I believe Shaq is roughly 10 years younger than MJ. So that makes sense. But that wasn't the same scenario that Jordan and Pippen were in seeing as how they're only a couple years apart in age. Jordan had been in the league 8 years before Shaq. Jordan was working on his 3rd Championship, had multiple MVPs, DPOY etc. Of course Shaq respected MJ lol. But again that's not the Scenario. It has to be a scenario similar to Pippen and Jordan. Where one has been in the league a couple years before the other arrives. I don't see why Shaq would hold MJ in such a high regard since Jordan hadn't accomplished much yet. You're trying to put early 2000s Shaq and early 90s MJ together. When both were at their apex and established. There has to be a progression. If they both join forces, something has to give. I just don't see Shaq scoring at the rate he did because of MJ. And he's probably not winning any MVPs or Finals MVPs. Because if he does (and here's the rub) then that takes away from Jordan's accolades. And as I said previously, them being together would make them dominant, but ones legacy would not be looked at in the same way if they decided to stay together as long as Jordan and Pippen did.

That's the thing. It doesn't have to be the 'same' scenario.

This is all hypothetical in case you forgot.

I'm only talking about Shaq in the 90s. If you paired that guy with Jordan, say, as early as '90... Not seeing how they DONT have a run more dominant than Pippen/Jordan. Individually they would be even better than Kobe/Shaq... and without the feuding.

Under your example, Shaq is drafted in 87 and probably a different player with an altered mindset. He wouldn't have the same affinity for Mike. Apples and oranges.

Why do you keep bringing this up? Jordan wasn't even on the team lol. Pippen has never said he was mad because Jordan always got the last shot. He understood because it's Jordan. But he felt he earned the right (which he did) to have the opportunity to be the hero and win the game. Jordan did something very similar when he stole the ball from Kukoc when it was clear that Jackson drew up the play for Toni in game 5 of the 98 Finals.

Again, I'm basing my assessment on what actually happened and what's reasonable.

I don't get why you're confused.

Pretty sure we're talking about egos here. Jordan being on the team is not relevant.

Again, how is Pippen refusing to play based on anything other than ego? Whatever Pippen felt he could have done doesn't matter because in that moment, he put himself over the team. You know it. I know it. Everyone seeing it play out knows it.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Good posts by Micku.

Jordan was allegedly a 'bad' teammate, but his sidekick was fueled by jealousy and plotted against him the entire time.

This makes Jordan's titles (and leadership) even more impressive.

[97 bulls]

I agree with Micku that Pippen's way of doing things is going to backfire with people. The public is more likely to come away from this thinking "Geez Jordan led that headcase to so many rings..." rather than "Pippen was as important as Jordan." Neither of course is a true statement but people are more likely to come away thinking the first. This book sours people's views on Pippen IMO.

Because it exposes the real Jordan. But I have a question, how are you quantifying who was more important? Mind not better, but more important to the Bulls success.

[3ba11]

it exposes the real Jordan.

It lies

It says that Jordan ruined basketball by only scoring, despite Jordan averaging more assists than Pippen in the regular season, playoffs and Finals

It says that Jordan wasn't a defender and didn't guard the opposing team's best player, despite Jordan getting more DPOY votes every year and being the primary defender on Magic, Drexler, Miller, Payton and Isiah.

So Pippen has proven to be a liar, in addition to the sniveling, immature player that Jordan had to "raise" and amazingly carried to 6 chips.. there's never been a bigger statistical OR mental gap between a 1st and 2nd option.

[Micku]

Lol. Bro. He said our as in team. He mentions Bobby Hanson by name and said he starts off hitting a big three. He also brings up the other players that were on the court with him He never mentioned that he also scored 12pts in the 4th and hit the go ahead basket in the clutch. And I believe he even mentioned that Jordan came back in and finished the job. But how is that whiney? And how can that possibly be selfish? Even more, why did MJ leave that out?


Yeah I thought that was crazy. Or was it that he didn't make the Allstar team in 91? I'd have to go back and read it again.

There are some things rather interesting. Like how he grew up and he develop the person that he was/is today. And how he treated the team like family in his own right and that everyone has a specific role and such. But there are some things that I think might not fly.

Lol. Bro. That's not how basketball as a team game works. The Bulls didn't really run an offense. It was Jordan trying to get his shot off and guys watching. No spacing, no movement, no direction, guys trying to get out of Jordan's way, and while they may be "open", they're not in their comfort zone. That's pickup ball.




Although he did mention his scoring seasons in the 80s and just being in awe of how he scored with the fastbreak and iso plays. He talked about him calling Phil was a racist was a coping mechanism.
This is Pippen's story. Not Jordan's. That's how it was framed in rebuttal to Jordan's teammates voicing their displeasure. See the double standard?


It didn't backfire, I'm starting to see people see his pov. What did he lie about? He was as important to Jordan with regards to the Bulls winning those 6 titles. Jordan was the best, but he was equally as important. The problem is these media guys that are voicing their displeasure with Pippen aren't willing to debate the subject.

The reason why it's whiny, imo, is because it comes across to say "What about me? What about my steal? What about the things that I did? Why do MJ get all the spot? Yeah, he averaged crazy numbers and hit game winners, but it wouldn't happened without my defense and contribution!" But I do think there are things that should've been in the doc. I don't know if the comeback should've been in the doc. Maybe. But that quote, "The mailman don't deliver on Sundays" should've. Definitely. Rodman defense on Shaq should've too. Luc Longley had some good games. Kukoc should've gotten more spotlight. But it is what it is.

And I don't know what type of offense was running when MJ was averaging those insane numbers under Doug Collins. But it did remind me a bit of Bron/James Harden ball. Just MJ didn't hold the ball as much as those guys and he wasn't as good as a play maker but he wasn't bad. However, the spacing was terrible back then, so it wouldn't be as effective anyway. Regardless, he did pass. There were definitely times where he missed the open dude to take the shot, but it wasn't as bad as Kobe back in the day. But those teams just couldn't buy a basket and the Pistons were sent the team at MJ. At the time, ppl criticize MJ for scoring too much or too little. But from what I saw, there were so many bricks. MJ definitely got better at playing under the team concept in the 90s for sure. He let the game come to him much better than back then in the 80s. Less is better in that instance. But it was insane how many open looks team had that they just missed. If he had better shooters around him, then I would imagine that style would be better just like Harden and LeBron. But they didn't use the 3pt shot a lot back then. So, the long range 2. Pippen especially wasn't good at that shot either till later. But it wasn't just him. It was pretty much the whole team stunk. Especially in 89 when they shouldn't even got there in the first place. It is amazing how much they improved at both ends.

And as you said, they probably weren't at their comfort zone. It wasn't their game, at least to compete with the Pistons. They improved tho of what they could do for sure by the 90s. But that's a whole essay to write about that on it's own. But Phil Jackson and Tex Winter put in the triangle, and they played much better with the team. Simultaneously, the team improved overall in what they could do.

And I get it's a Pippen story. But this Pippen story is talks about MJ a whole lot. And as you said, voicing his and teammates displeasure over the Last Dance and how he was treated and view. He wanted to be acknowledge of his accomplishments too. But I do think it'll backfire. I'm checking some youtube vids out who read the book, they think Pippen is bitter. They media does, for the most part. And I dunno if you checked out the subreddit of the Bulls? They just think it's embarrassing. And the calls that some of these podcasts and radio shows get when they talk about Pippen? Most of them think Pippen is trippin. But you really don't think it'll backfire? Cuz I see it personally that it's backfiring with a bunch of fans.

But you do have ppl who are sympathetic of Pippen and his book may enhance that. But for the most part, at least from what I seen, I don't think so. I think it's a shame cuz he tackled on some good points. And the teamball of the Bulls were amazing. Yeah ppl paid attention to MJ majority, but they were an amazing team. I don't think the book will do that any favors with the public due to Pippen interviews and some of the comments.

[97 bulls]

That's the thing. It doesn't have to be the 'same' scenario.

This is all hypothetical in case you forgot.

I'm only talking about Shaq in the 90s. If you paired that guy with Jordan, say, as early as '90... Not seeing how they DONT have a run more dominant than Pippen/Jordan. Individually they would be even better than Kobe/Shaq... and without the feuding.

Shaq and Kobe didn't have a run as dominant as Jordan and Pippen. Not sure how much more dominant a Shaq/Jordan 1-2 punch would be. Based on how much better you think Jordan is over Bryant. But that neither here nor there. Again, this is a hyothetical, but it's based on what we know from the players in question. Is Jordan gonna be OK with Shaq making rap songs, and movies instead of working on trying to win? Again, it's no secret that Shaq had an issue with the pub Penny Hardaway was getting. But he's gonna be cool with Jordans godlike publicity? And he didn't want the Lakers offense to run though Kobe to the point that he threatened to stop playing defense if he didn't get the ball. I mean you're ignoring all of these facets that were plainly there in you euphoric scenario.

Under your example, Shaq is drafted in 87 and probably a different player with an altered mindset. He wouldn't have the same affinity for Mike. Apples and oranges.

Because that was the scenario between Jordan and Pippen. You changed it and basically used hindsight. IE Jordan led his team to 6 championships, Shaq to 3 the MVPs accolades etc. It can't play out that way if they play together. Somebody is gonna have to take a backseat.

I don't get why you're confused.

Pretty sure we're talking about egos here. Jordan being on the team is not relevant.

Again, how is Pippen refusing to play based on anything other than ego? Whatever Pippen felt he could have done doesn't matter because in that moment, he put himself over the team. You know it. I know it. Everyone seeing it play out knows it.

Pippen played in the shadow of Jordan basically his whole career. Which meant he had to check his ego, at the door every night. You gonna use one moment to show he had an ego? Lol. That's insane bro.

[Micku]

It lies

It says that Jordan ruined basketball by only scoring, despite Jordan averaging more assists than Pippen in the regular season, playoffs and Finals

It says that Jordan wasn't a defender and didn't guard the opposing team's best player, despite Jordan getting more DPOY votes every year and being the primary defender on Magic, Drexler, Miller, Payton and Isiah.

So Pippen has proven to be a liar, in addition to the sniveling, immature player that Jordan had to "raise" and amazingly carried to 6 chips.. there's never been a bigger statistical OR mental gap between a 1st and 2nd option.

Hahahah, oh yeah. He did say that. About the defensive part. That's crazy. Did he say he didn't want to guard the best player? I think that's something perhaps. But regardless, he did guard the best player of the opposing team. A lot of the time. Especially in the first peat. We got the tape and we got the stats. We even had teams that said, "Don't pass it in the area that MJ is guarding" because he was that good with his timing and help defense. Other coaches and players commented on MJ's defense. Like Pippen got the credit for guarding Magic effectively as deserved, but MJ guarded him the majority of the time in the finals and did pretty well aside from game 1. I think Pippen got fouled out in game 3 and it went back to MJ. MJ guarded him a majority of the time period whenever they played.

We have so many vids to show that MJ did guard the best player and to show he was effective in doing so. But not to say MJ didn't get cook, every players does, but he really good in that aspect. His peers talk about how good he was in defense, the coaches, even his teammates at the time and we as fans could also see it. lol! And we have the stats. What Pippen said was a big claim that I don't think will fly.

[97 bulls]

The reason why it's whiny, imo, is because it comes across to say "What about me? What about my steal? What about the things that I did? Why do MJ get all the spot? Yeah, he averaged crazy numbers and hit game winners, but it wouldn't happened without my defense and contribution!" But I do think there are things that should've been in the doc. I don't know if the comeback should've been in the doc. Maybe. But that quote, "The mailman don't deliver on Sundays" should've. Definitely. Rodman defense on Shaq should've too. Luc Longley had some good games. Kukoc should've gotten more spotlight. But it is what it is.

And I don't know what type of offense was running when MJ was averaging those insane numbers under Doug Collins. But it did remind me a bit of Bron/James Harden ball. Just MJ didn't hold the ball as much as those guys and he wasn't as good as a play maker but he wasn't bad. However, the spacing was terrible back then, so it wouldn't be as effective anyway. Regardless, he did pass. There were definitely times where he missed the open dude to take the shot, but it wasn't as bad as Kobe back in the day. But those teams just couldn't buy a basket and the Pistons were sent the team at MJ. At the time, ppl criticize MJ for scoring too much or too little. But from what I saw, there were so many bricks. MJ definitely got better at playing under the team concept in the 90s for sure. He let the game come to him much better than back then in the 80s. Less is better in that instance. But it was insane how many open looks team had that they just missed. If he had better shooters around him, then I would imagine that style would be better just like Harden and LeBron. But they didn't use the 3pt shot a lot back then. So, the long range 2. Pippen especially wasn't good at that shot either till later. But it wasn't just him. It was pretty much the whole team stunk. Especially in 89 when they shouldn't even got there in the first place. It is amazing how much they improved at both ends.

And as you said, they probably weren't at their comfort zone. It wasn't their game, at least to compete with the Pistons. They improved tho of what they could do for sure by the 90s. But that's a whole essay to write about that on it's own. But Phil Jackson and Tex Winter put in the triangle, and they played much better with the team. Simultaneously, the team improved overall in what they could do.

And I get it's a Pippen story. But this Pippen story is talks about MJ a whole lot. And as you said, voicing his and teammates displeasure over the Last Dance and how he was treated and view. He wanted to be acknowledge of his accomplishments too. But I do think it'll backfire. I'm checking some youtube vids out who read the book, they think Pippen is bitter. They media does, for the most part. And I dunno if you checked out the subreddit of the Bulls? They just think it's embarrassing. And the calls that some of these podcasts and radio shows get when they talk about Pippen? Most of them think Pippen is trippin. But you really don't think it'll backfire? Cuz I see it personally that it's backfiring with a bunch of fans.

But you do have ppl who are sympathetic of Pippen and his book may enhance that. But for the most part, at least from what I seen, I don't think so. I think it's a shame cuz he tackled on some good points. And the teamball of the Bulls were amazing. Yeah ppl paid attention to MJ majority, but they were an amazing team. I don't think the book will do that any favors with the public due to Pippen interviews and some of the comments.

So it's whiney because his teammate is taking all the credit for the work the team did? That's not whiney.I was actually appalled that Jordan opted to leave out key moments in the Bulls title runs. Why arent you?

[3ba11]

"The mailman don't deliver on Sundays" should've been in the doc.

So should the documentary have included Derrick McKey whispering to Pippen when Pippen missed 2 free throws in the 98' ECF that nearly lost that series??.. They were right before Miller's historic winner over MJ:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F1lCjwWJ1Ds&t=7121s

Rodman defense on Shaq should've too. Luc Longley had some good games. Kukoc should've gotten more spotlight.

Rodman did spot-duty on Shaq, who still averaged almost 30 with good efficiency... No player has ever been cited in a documentary for playing spot-duty on a guy that still dominated....

EXCEPT PIPPEN ON MAGIC!!!!... Pippen has been lionized for his spot-duty, so the idea that Pippen doesn't get enough credit is preposterous - he gets far more credit than he ever deserved - the stats & facts show that.

Ultimately, the guys that dominated or hit big shots were appropriately lionized in the doc - Jordan, Paxson, Kerr, Kukoc

But the 80's Bulls couldn't buy a basket so the Pistons sent the team at MJ.. .

But from what I saw, there were so many bricks.

^^^ exactly, so Jordan was forced to take a lot of shots, yet he still shot far above the league average true shooting every year of his career, including 1987 when he averaged 37 ppg

In addition to good efficiency despite the goat volume, the goat aspect of Jordan's scoring is that it was partially off-ball and therefore assisted, which elevated teammate role and allowed the best strategy (ball movement) - so Jordan could win with high scoring and has many series-wins with high scoring.. This contrasts with ball-dominators (unassisted scoring), which reduces teamamtes to spot-up shooter and uses inferior strategy (ball-domination) - so ball-dominators can't win with high scoring against the top teams and need elite-scoring teammates to match or exceed their scoring when needed.

MJ definitely got better at playing under the team concept in the 90s for sure. He let the game come to him much better than back then in the 80s. Less is better in that instance.

Jordan appeared like less of a chucker as his teammates started to improve at basketball - there's a direct correlation with them becoming veterans that knew how to play and Jordan not needing to chuck as much.

But he never "toned it down" to win because he won every title as scoring champ and averaged 36 ppg in the 91-93' Finals and 34/7/7 in the 91-93' Playoffs - so his burden (scoring and usage) increased for him to win.

Especially in 89 when they shouldn't even got there in the first place.

If Jordan doesn't carry his low seed over the #1 SRS team with "the shot" and propel the Bulls to the 89' ECF, the Bulls would've been in rebuild mode instead of ECF veterans and a year away from starting a 3-peat - his carry-job in those playoffs was the difference between remaining a bad franchise and becoming a dynasty.. he FORCED his lottery cast to contend with those Bad Boys and not get swept or beaten by record amount.

And I dunno if you checked out the subreddit of the Bulls?

Pippen cannot show his face in Chicago ever again.. Everyone knows how much of a fraud he is and how it makes MJ the goat even more to carry such a bum.

MJ wasn't as good as a play maker as Harden or Lebron but he wasn't bad.

Lebron and Harden bring the ball up the court, so they look like superior playmakers to Jordan, who was an off-guard - but the media said MJ was better than Magic and Stockton after only 10 games at point guard in 1989 - Jordan's 30/10/10 point guard style was similar to Luka, Harden, Westbrook, or Lebron, and therefore 30 years ahead of it's time.

So anytime the Bulls needed more than 7 apg, Jordan was the only option - Jordan had numerous series with 8-11 APG.. He's actually the only player that ever averaged 10 apg without bringing the ball up and playing point guard (1991 Finals).

So no - Lebron and Harden aren't better playmakers than Jordan - they simply play the ball-dominator role more often and Jordan was on their level anytime he played that role - but he preferred the off-guard role, which was fortunate because it allowed better teammate fits and the best strategy (ball movement), which allowed the best teams (6/6).

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Shaq and Kobe didn't have a run as dominant as Jordan and Pippen. Not sure how much more dominant a Shaq/Jordan 1-2 punch would be. Based on how much better you think Jordan is over Bryant. But that neither here nor there. Again, this is a hyothetical, but it's based on what we know from the players in question. Is Jordan gonna be OK with Shaq making rap songs, and movies instead of working on trying to win? Again, it's no secret that Shaq had an issue with the pub Penny Hardaway was getting. But he's gonna be cool with Jordans godlike publicity? And he didn't want the Lakers offense to run though Kobe to the point that he threatened to stop playing defense if he didn't get the ball. I mean you're ignoring all of these facets that were plainly there in you euphoric scenario.

Didn't say they did, but individually Kobe/Shaq were better.

Kobe and Shaq had superior numbers together, and completed a postseason run more dominant than any of Chicago's.

Jordan would help motivate Shaq because of the respect he already had for Mike. If Rodman could listen to MJ, who was actually older than him, I don't think it would be that big of an issue. At least not to the degree of Kobe/Shaq.

Like I mentioned earlier, Mike was also more vocal than Kobe and clearly a better leader of men. For as many shots Jordan hoisted, he was also the better playmaker than Kobe and had a better understanding of the 'team' concept.

Nobody knows for sure either way, but understanding how Shaq and Jordan functioned, especially during their title reign.... I don't see a scenario where they aren't a dynasty.

With Mike, Shaq wins right away and wouldn't have an incentive to leave. Shaq could still be Hollywood like Dennis Rodman tried to be, but the difference is Shaq was tiers apart as a player, and less of a headcase. Shaq reigned it in when needed, which he would likely do with Mike.

Because that was the scenario between Jordan and Pippen. You changed it and basically used hindsight. IE Jordan led his team to 6 championships, Shaq to 3 the MVPs accolades etc. It can't play out that way if they play together. Somebody is gonna have to take a backseat.

You misread.

I've been talking about 90s Shaq, which is why I brought up his adulation and respect for Mike.

Only reason you moved it to the 80s was to fit your narrative. I mean, most of this debate is hypothetical speculative BS. Obviously. But at least my scenario doesn't wipe Shaq's game or his memory.

Pippen played in the shadow of Jordan basically his whole career. Which meant he had to check his ego, at the door every night. You gonna use one moment to show he had an ego? Lol. That's insane bro.

Don't be naive. There have been countless instances Pippen's flexed his ego. You can admit in this case, Pippen was selfish...right?

Pippen also had no choice but to play under Mike's shadow. He was an inferior player.

[Micku]

So it's whiney because his teammate is taking all the credit for the work the team did? That's not whiney.I was actually appalled that Jordan opted to leave out key moments in the Bulls title runs. Why arent you?

I didn't say that. I'm saying he comes across as whiney for talking about himself compared to MJ. Cuz he mentioned that they credit steals to MJ instead of Pippen. That MJ ruined the game of basketball. That the Last Dance documentary didn't show his defensive top which lead to a MJ game winner or a MJ pass to a game winner, and say it wasn't special. And calling Phil a racist for not letting him take the last shot. Although he said it was coping mechanism. While he has some good points, it doesn't come across well and it seems whiny when it compares himself to MJ.

If he talked about the team, that's one thing. But he talked about himself as relation to a MJ. It was more, "I did this! I made that steal! I passed it to that guy! Where's my highlight" type of approach.

And I'm not the only one. As I said, the subreddit of the Bulls think it's embarrassing. A bunch of media heads think so, podcast ppl, youtube ppl, ppl on the forums. Even Nick Wright who is a Pippen sympathizer think Pippen needs a spokesman to help him address some points. But don't take my word for it, look the reviews from goodreads. A bunch of them say the exact same thing.

Wesley Policky
Its his version of the story. Some comes off as whiny and jealous - other parts seem genuine and grateful. I could not put it down, so the story is good. I just sit in the camp of Jordan is the greatest I've watched and Scottie was awesome as well, just not Jordan and that should be good enough. Sometimes it feels as though for Pippen, it was not.

Corban Ford
Man, this was tough. I respect Scottie Pippen's career and I feel that he definitely deserves more credit than he has received in "The Last Dance" and other Chicago Bulls-centric retrospectives but man.... resentment and bitterness permeate this entire book. Pippen spends most of it talking about how important HE was to the team and success, except for when it comes to acknowledging his shortfalls or giving more than just the passing credit to MJ.

Andre
A bit whiny at times, mostly in regards to Michael Jordan and it comes off as petty even though some of his points about Michael Jordan are indeed legitimate. Scottie is one of twelve children and so family has always been a part of his development and outlook on life.

The basketball parts of the book are the strength of this memoir.

But you also have ppl who do like it.

Georgette
I really enjoyed Scottie's book. A lot of people are dogging him for being upfront and not mincing words. He does manage to be complimentary and yet also tells it like it is. A good memoir.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...#other_reviews

But there are a lot of reviews that are like this. This is a small sample size to reflect the masses, but you can check out what other ppl are saying about it on other sites as well. Ppl say Pippen comes across as whiny even though he do talk about some good points. So they do get enjoyment out of it even though they may agree with everything. As for what The Last Dance, sure there could've been more stuff. I personally like the stuff where they go into detail and the tactics of the game personally in a b-ball doc, but it wasn't that. They pretty much talked about everything that I already know about, except for a couple of things. But I was a bit bummed, but not appalled. One of things that I wish they were talk about is that when the Bulls lost, MJ got pissed off. He was saying how the team didn't show up that night, didn't do anything for him, and that he should never come back and such.

But regardless, I think you see a backlash with this book. I don't think he'll ever be remembered as important as MJ. It isn't backed up by the stats for the statheads for sure, majority of the fans or the media who saw'em don't say that, and he isn't backed up by the current gen of stars. But maybe for his teammates of the Bulls. And this book and the interviews won't help his case for the masses I think.

[bison]

How many guys did Jordan ‘get on’? That Bulls locker room had to have been a sticky mess in the 90s. No wonder pippin is mad.

[outofstomach]

Good posts by Micku.

Jordan was allegedly a 'bad' teammate, but his sidekick was fueled by jealousy and plotted against him the entire time.

This makes Jordan's titles (and leadership) even more impressive.

[outofstomach]

So it's whiney because his teammate is taking all the credit for the work the team did? That's not whiney.I was actually appalled that Jordan opted to leave out key moments in the Bulls title runs. Why arent you?

you are such a ****ing loser like you really are