This guy thinks KG is better than Kobe

[SaintzFury13]

gasol is 0-16 as leader in the playoffs

you lose lol

You're gonna have to do a lot better than that. That kind of logic might work on retards like 3Ball but for most people with a brain, this argument is not only an obvious cop out, but does nothing to prove the point you're trying to make.

Either try to come up with something constructive or decent, or admit you're wrong.

[kennygriffin]

You're gonna have to do a lot better than that. That kind of logic might work on retards like 3Ball but for most people with a brain, this argument is not only an obvious cop out, but does nothing to prove the point you're trying to make.

Either try to come up with something constructive or decent, or admit you're wrong.

gasol had one bench warming allstar appearance in 7 years before kobe carried him to his first playoff victory. you're a moron lol

[SaintzFury13]

You can't possibly believe this? KG disappeared in the playoffs when it mattered the most in his first 7 seasons. 2004 he gets some help and that is the one season that he showed up in big spots

He averaged 27 PPG in the playoffs the season prior to 04, but you're saying he showed up in that one but not the one before?

I'm staring to seriously wonder how many of you actually watched basketball back then.

but then proceeds to miss the playoffs all together 3 seasons in a row until he forms a super-team with Pierce and Allen in 2007-08.

His team was far more depleted than Kobe's was at that point. At least Kobe had some decent defenders to play with.

Say what you will about Kobe, but when both KG and Kobe had depleted teams in 2005, 2006, and 2007, Kobe took his team to the playoffs 2 out of the 3 years. KG missed the playoffs ALL three seasons.

Oscar Robertson missed the playoffs for four straight years in his prime. I guess going by your logic, Robertson can't even be considered a top 30 player, right?

Also, you're going off of years where it became clear that Kobe was the better player at that point than KG was. I don't think anyone is disputing that 2005 and on, Kobe was the superior talent.

[SaintzFury13]

gasol had one bench warming allstar appearance in 7 years before kobe carried him to his first playoff victory. you're a moron lol

What does that have to do with how valuable of a second option teammate Gasol was for Kobe you dumbshit?

[SaintzFury13]

Keven had a good enough team to beat the Lakers in 2004 but couldn't get past them. no excuses.

The second best player on his team didn't even play in that series, nor did their back up PG.

Stop responding to me. I'm not going to waste my time reading your idiotic posts.

[HoopsNY]

By '06 though Kobe was clearly better than KG. In fairness to him KG did lead mediocre rosters to the playoffs in the west every year from '97-'03, even winning 50 games 3 times. But I agree, his playoff scoring left a lot to be desired for most of that run

I don't think those rosters were that mediocre. Marbury was a solid PG, as was Brandon. Guys like Smith were good role players and so was Szczerbiak.

For example, 2001-02 Wally made the AS team and put up 19 PPG on 51/46/84 splits. Not to mention that team had both Brandon and Billups. Googs was an All-Star in 1997 and between 1997 and 1998, was a 20/9 player on high efficiency.

With guys like Gugliotta, Marbury, Brandon, Billups, Smith, Hudson and eventually Cassell and Spreewell, how "mediocre" were his teams, really? And how do those rosters compare to guys like Odom, Mihm, Smush, and Kwame Brown?

I say all of this from an honest place. I was a huge KG fan back then. The fact is, a player who cannot dominate the 4th quarter and overtimes as a go to guy cannot be better than a player who was the exact opposite. Kobe was an assassin, KG simply wasn't.

[kennygriffin]

What does that have to do with how valuable of a second option teammate Gasol was for Kobe you dumbshit?

1 reserve allstar spot in 7 years and a career 0-16 playoff record as lead dog means kobe literally turned him from a flash in the pan shareef abdur Rahim type career into a hall of fame career

kobe needed the bare minimum

less than a pippen. and he wasn't much either but at least he was elite on both ends.

a soft mid range jump shooting big man isnt anything special

[HoopsNY]

He averaged 27 PPG in the playoffs the season prior to 04, but you're saying he showed up in that one but not the one before?

KG was the master of empty stats. I posted about this in another post because it's very easy to look at the overall body of work, statistically, and think "wow, KG was really doing his thing, so it must have been his teammates who were the problem." The reality is that it was somewhere in between. Here's what I mentioned in another post.

"The problem is that numbers like this disregard what he was doing when he was most needed. Take a look at deciding games for KG before 2004, and particularly his production in the 4th quarters.

I included some turnover numbers because KG's assist totals sometimes gets overrated in the grand scheme of things, especially when at times, he was turning the ball over almost as much as he was scoring in the 4th quarter.

1997 Game 3 vs. Houston: 17 points, 7-16 FGs (44%) | 3 points, 1-3 FGs (33%), 1 TO

1998 Game 5 vs. Seattle: 7 points, 3-11 FGs (27%) 10 TOs | 0 points, 0-3 FGs (0%), 1 TO

1999 Game 4 vs. San Antonio: 20 points, 6-20 FGs (30%) | 9 points, 3-8 FGs (37%)

2000 Game 4 vs. Portland: 17 points, 5-20 FGs (20%) | 4 points, 1-7 FGs (14%)

2001 Game 4 vs. San Antonio: 19 points, 6-13 FGs (46%) | 2 points, 1-2 FGs (50%)

2002 Game 3 vs. Dallas: 22 points, 9-19 FGs (47%) 6 TOs | 3 points, 1-5 FGs (20%)

2003 Game 6 vs Los Angeles: 18 points, 9-21 FGs (42%) 3 TOs | 4 points, 2-5 FGs (40%) 2 TOs

KG as a rookie missed the playoffs, then got bounced in the 1st round 7 seasons in a row where not only did he fail miserably in deciding games and played horribly in 4th quarters, but he found himself being outplayed by teammates like Troy Hudson, Dean Garrett, Anthony Peeler, and Wally Szczerbiak. (Not exactly esteemed company).

Then he misses the playoffs every year until the Celtics formed a super-team with him, Pierce, and Allen. I loved KG as a player, but he just wasn't THAT guy."

I'm staring to seriously wonder how many of you actually watched basketball back then.

I'm seriously wondering that about you as well. But I won't get into trading ad hominem with you. People have different perspectives. At least analyze their reasoning first before you race to conclusions.

His team was far more depleted than Kobe's was at that point. At least Kobe had some decent defenders to play with.

I disagree. For one, they traded Wally mid-season in 2005-06, but even with him, they were just a 19-21 team. And even then, they added Rickey Davis in the trade.

Oscar Robertson missed the playoffs for four straight years in his prime. I guess going by your logic, Robertson can't even be considered a top 30 player, right?

One - I never said KG is not a top 30 player.

Two - You're comparing apples to oranges, as the league had far fewer teams and Oscar was competing with the Sixers and Celtics. Not to mention, there weren't as many playoff rounds, so even fewer teams made the playoffs.

Also, you're going off of years where it became clear that Kobe was the better player at that point than KG was. I don't think anyone is disputing that 2005 and on, Kobe was the superior talent.

If you're isolating 2003-04 KG vs. 2003-04 Kobe, then yea, I agree. If that's the debate then I concede to your point.

[HoopsNY]

1 reserve allstar spot in 7 years and a career 0-16 playoff record as lead dog means kobe literally turned him from a flash in the pan shareef abdur Rahim type career into a hall of fame career

kobe needed the bare minimum

less than a pippen. and he wasn't much either but at least he was elite on both ends.

a soft mid range jump shooting big man isnt anything special

There is truth to this. Gasol had no All-NBA selections, a terrible playoff record, and just one all-star appearance prior to joining Kobe.

Here's another fact that Kobe haters don't like to admit, LA was 35-20 without Gasol in 2007-08, a near 53 win pace. LA won 57 games that year. Obviously adding Pau helped, but Kobe had that team on a 50+ win pace regardless of his addition.

And in their previous 29 games before adding Pau, LA was 21-8. Kobe was steamrolling the Lakers through a conference where, eventually, all 8 teams won 50 games.

And their record without Pau between 2008-10? 47-26 (54 win pace)

KG is nowhere near Kobe, sorry.