Does this prove that 05-10' Lebron had more help on both sides of ball than 90' MJ?

[3ball]

In 2005, 2006, 2009, and 2010, Lebron had a better-ranked team defense, and a better offensive sidekick than 90' Pippen was

(05' Zydrunas, 05' Hughes, 06' Zydrunas, 09' Mo, and 10' Jamison had better PER, WS/48, scoring and efficiency than 90' Pippen).

So Jordan had less help on both sides of the ball, yet nearly beat the champs (a "migraine" stopped it), while Lebron was swept (07'), lottery (05'), and lost as the league favorite (09' and 10')..

[scuzzy]

Lebron made the finals with 2nd option Larry Hughes

Jordan missed the playoffs with 3rd option Larry Hughes

[red1]

only finals MVP over a 70+ win team - thank you kyrie :)

[SATAN]

Attention

[3ball]

Lebron made the finals with 2nd option Larry Hughes

Jordan missed the playoffs with 3rd option Larry Hughes

07' Lebron had the #4 team defense, along with 2-time all-star Zydrunas and a 22/5/5 all-defender in Hughes, so that's 2 guys that were better than 90' Pippen (#19 defense)

Ultimately... by properly evaluating Jordan's help in 90' as less than 05-10' Lebron, we can accurately gauge his 91'-93' championship help as comparable to 10' Lebron's, and therefore see the extent of his carry-jobs.. Jordan's carry-jobs are further demonstrated by the goat gap between his production rate stats (PER, etc) and his sidekicks' - it's bigger than the gap between 11' Dirk and Terry, so MJ has 6 carry-jobs bigger than 11' Dirk (stats here).

[kawhileonard2]

Yes he had Dwight Howard, Tim Duncan, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh and won bronze medal.

[scuzzy]

07' Lebron had the #4 team defense, along with 2-time all-star Zydrunas and a 22/5/5 all-defender in Hughes, so that's 2 guys that were better than 90' Pippen (#19 defense)

Ultimately... by properly evaluating Jordan's help in 90' as less than 05-10' Lebron, we can accurately gauge his 91'-93' championship help as comparable to 10' Lebron's, and therefore see the extent of his carry-jobs.. Jordan's carry-jobs are further demonstrated by the goat gap between his production rate stats (PER, etc) and his sidekicks' - it's bigger than the gap between 11' Dirk and Terry, so MJ has 6 carry-jobs bigger than 11' Dirk (stats here).

Jordan missed the playoffs with 2x all-star Jerry Stackhouse and prime 3rd option Larry Hughes

[LAmbruh]

Jordan missed the playoffs with 2x all-star Jerry Stackhouse and prime 3rd option Larry Hughes

Jordan was Jerry's pippen

[3ball]

Jordan missed the playoffs with 2x all-star Jerry Stackhouse and prime 3rd option Larry Hughes

You're talking about the 03' Wizards, where Jordan had higher PER than rookie Lebron the next year (who was also lottery)

Otoh, the 02' Wizards were the 4 seed just like the 19' Lakers, but then MJ got hurt

Before the injury, MJ was 1 of 3 guys averaging 25/5/5 (Kobe, Tmac, MJ), with 50 point games and winners over Marion.. that's basically the same as lebron except today's league allows teams 20 more ppg

But his play at 39 years old doesn't count anyway.. Ultimately, 85-90' Jordan played in a conference that required a super-team to win it with less help than 05-10' Lebron, who played in a conference that 1-star teams were routinely winning

[Hey Yo]

Larry Hughes' statline for the 2007 Finals

2gms.... 44mp.... 1pt, 2 boards and 1 assist

https://www.basketball-reference.com...-vs-spurs.html

[RRR3]

Why does OP punish LeBron for leading his teams to better defenses lol? Makes no sense.

[3ball]

Why does OP punish LeBron for leading his teams to better defenses lol? Makes no sense.

Zydrunas was a top rim protector (2.5 blocks) - that's why the 05' Cavs had the #12 defense..

Otoh, the 90' Bulls had the #19 defense because they had zero rim protection in a packed-paint league format (0.3 blocks for Cartwright).

[3ball]

Larry Hughes' statline for the 2007 Finals

2gms.... 44mp.... 1pt, 2 boards and 1 assist

https://www.basketball-reference.com...-vs-spurs.html

Hughes was hurt but his 22/5/5 all-defender capacity helped the Cavs make the Finals, along with 2-time all-star Zydrunas and a top team defense - that's more help than Jordan had until 92', so Lebron shouldn't have been swept.. he only got swept because he wet the bed with 22 on 35%..

Btw, I understand that lebron reduced Hughes, so he wasn't getting 22/5/5 anymore but his decorated accolades and presence was still a big factor in winning the East

[kawhileonard2]

Jordan missed the playoffs with 2x all-star Jerry Stackhouse and prime 3rd option Larry Hughes

Lebron lost in the playoffs with 3x finals mvp in Shaq and 1x league mvp in Shaq and then lost with 4x DPOY in Ben Wallace to Dwight Howard and won bronze medal with Peak Duncan who was 2x MVP and 2x Finals mvp.

[3ball]

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Thread Cliffs (proof that 05-10' Lebron had more help on both sides of ball than 90' MJ)


From 06-10, the Cavs had higher-ranked team defenses than the 90' Bulls and better offensive sidekicks than Pippen (05' Zydrunas, 05' Hughes, 06' Zydrunas, 09' Mo, and 10' Jamison had better PER, WS/48, scoring and efficiency than 90' Pippen).

So Jordan had less help on both sides of the ball, yet nearly beat the champs (a "migraine" stopped it), while Lebron was swept (07'), lottery (05'), and lost as the league favorite (09' and 10')..

Ultimately, 85-90' Jordan played in a conference that required a super-team to win it with less help than 05-10' Lebron, who played in a conference that 1-star teams were routinely winning