How does Kobe's legacy get viewed nowadays if he had lost that finals game 7 in 2010

[coastalmarker99]

Would he still be viewed the same way as he is nowadays by both fans and media or would the entire narrative about Kobe's legacy change due to his less than efficient performance in that Game 7 loss at home against the Celtics?

Also, who do you think gets the finals Mvp for the Celtics that year if they win that game 7 against the Lakers do the voters decide to give to Rondo or Paul Pierce as none of the Celtics big three really played well that entire finals series.

[SouBeachTalents]

It takes a significant hit. If they had lost he would've

Had just 1 FMVP in 4 rings
Been 1-2 in the Finals without Shaq
Been 0-2 against Boston
And as bad as 6/24 gets criticized now, that gets amplified tenfold in a loss

Imo he would definitely not be in top 10 contention like he is now without that 2nd FMVP

[coastalmarker99]

Also, does the fact that Kobe never beat Boston in this timeline put a sort of an asterisk on the 09 ring where he went up against the Magic in the finals instead of the Celtics who would have been there if Kg was healthy.

[coastalmarker99]

It takes a significant hit. If they had lost he would've

Had just 1 FMVP in 4 rings
Been 1-2 in the Finals without Shaq
0-2 against Boston
And as bad as 6/24 gets criticized now, that gets amplified tenfold

Imo he would definitely not be in top 10 contention like he is now with just 1 MVP & 1 FMVP

Where would you now rank him all time if he had lost that game 7 would he drop from 10th or 12th all-time in your rankings now down to 15th or 14th or would he drop even further then that in your eyes.

[SouBeachTalents]

Where would you now rank him all time if he had lost that game 7 would he drop from 10 or 11 in your rankings now down to 15 or 14

It sounds ridiculous that one game going differently affects where I rank a guy after 20 years in the league, but that's the thin line these athletes have legacy wise. It's an interesting question, because even without the 2nd FMVP, his resume is absolutely arguable against anybody else that isn't in the top 10. I honestly don't know where I'd rank him, but what I do know is that all time comparisons of him vs. the likes of Malone, KG, Dirk, Robinson & Barkley etc. would become a lot more legitimate.

How about you, where would you rank him had they lost?

[coastalmarker99]

It sounds ridiculous that one game going differently affects where I rank a guy after 20 years in the league, but that's the thin line these athletes have legacy wise. It's an interesting question, because even without the 2nd FMVP, his resume is absolutely arguable against anybody else that isn't in the top 10. I honestly don't know where I'd rank him, but what I do know is that all time comparisons of him vs. the likes of Malone, KG, Dirk, Robinson & Barkley etc. would become a lot more legitimate.

How about you, where would you rank him had they lost?

The game 7 loss would definitely tarnish his legacy massively and I admit this as somewhat of a Kobe fan. The 6-24 number is infamous enough despite winning the championship and Finals MVP; I can't even fathom how much he'd get crucified if they lost that game 7 by both the media and fans.

It'd look even worse in the gestalt of his career. He'd have no Finals wins against the Celtics (his franchise's salient rival), a fourth series loss with HCA, and a third Finals upset with subpar play; that'd be impossible to live down.

Plus, think about the accolades he'd lose. He wouldn't join the pantheon of multi-time Finals MVPs and wouldn't have led his own title team without Shaq besides in 2009 which everyone fairly or unfairly would have been calling a complete fluke because of KGs injury that year.


There is no doubt in my mind that he would drop from 12 or 11 all-time right now to me to about 15 or 16th all-time as having that game 7 meltdown in 2010 to go along with his game 7 meltdown in 2006 and his 2004 finals performance would be an awful look for any all-time great to have.




He would still be considered a legend by both fans and media but not in the same tier as he is today

[SouBeachTalents]

The game 7 loss would definitely tarnish his legacy massively and I admit this as somewhat of a Kobe fan. The 6-24 number is infamous enough despite winning the championship and Finals MVP; I can't even fathom how much he'd get crucified if they lost that game 7 by both the media and fans.

It'd look even worse in the gestalt of his career. He'd have no Finals wins against the Celtics (his franchise's salient rival), a fourth series loss with HCA, and a third Finals upset with subpar play; that'd be impossible to live down.

Plus, think about the accolades he'd lose. He wouldn't join the pantheon of multi-time Finals MVPs and wouldn't have led his own title team without Shaq besides in 2009 which everyone fairly or unfairly would have been calling a complete fluke because of KGs injury that year.


There is no doubt in my mind that he would drop from 12 or 11 all-time right now to me to about 15 or 16th all-time as having that game 7 meltdown in 2010 to go along with his game 7 meltdown in 2006 and his 2004 finals performance would be an awful look for any all-time great to have.




He would still be considered a legend by both fans and media but not in the same tier as he is today

Do you think that was the most significant game historically for a players legacy? It really might be, the only ones that come close imo would be

Bird's Game 7 vs. LA (or vs. Philly in '81)
Numerous games for Hakeem in '94 & '95
The Game 7's Wilt had from '68-'70

Then the next tier would be
Shaq's Game 7 vs. Portland (or the Kings)
Duncan's Game 7 vs. Detroit
Kareem's Game 7 vs. Boston in '74
LeBron's Game 7 vs. GSW

[coastalmarker99]

Do you think that was the most significant game historically for a players legacy? It really might be, the only ones that come close imo would be

Bird's Game 7 vs. LA (or vs. Philly in '81)
Numerous games for Hakeem in '94 & '95
The Game 7's Wilt had from '68-'70

Then the next tier would be
Shaq's Game 7 vs. Portland (or the Kings)
Duncan's Game 7 vs. Detroit
Kareem's Game 7 vs. Boston in '74
LeBron's Game 7 vs. GSW

I think Wilt's game sevens from 1968 to 1970 take the cake for the most significant game historically for a players legacy as if Wilt wins those games he has 5 rings and 4 finals MVP's to his name to go along with his 100 plus records as a result of this the goat debate nowadays that we are debating online becomes Wilt vs Jordan and Lebron.


After that, I would say Lebron's game 6 vs the Celtics in 2012 as if he had lost that year after choking in 2011 he would have been utterly destroyed by both the press and media and also afterwards in that offseason Miami's big three is broken up and Spoelstra is fired which changes everything for the Heat in 2013 and 2014.





Bird in 1984 according to the voters who spoke to him after the game was getting awarded the finals MVP regardless if they had lost or won that game 7 so Bird would have 2 rings and 3 finals MVP's still even with a loss in the 1984 finals.



Shaq's game 7 against portland is massive as if they lose that game. Then the Lakers most likely decide to trade Kobe elsewhere during the 2000-2001 regular season as with all the drama that started with Kobe and Shaq relationship with each other in the 2000 offseason I don't think the Lakers management would have the same patience to deal with Kobe's beef with Shaq in 2001 if they don't win the title in 2000.

[Manny98]

Crazy how one game could have such an impact on a players legacy

[Thenameless]

He'd be a lot lower for me if they hadn't won in 2010, but that's also because I'm a Lakers fan. I believe it's also the only time that the Lakers have beaten the Celtics in a Game 7. Kobe not playing so well in that Game 7, and then losing, would have a lasting effect on his legacy as it would have been his last time on the big stage.

[coastalmarker99]

I think Wilt's game sevens from 1968 to 1970 take the cake for the most significant game historically for a players legacy as if Wilt wins those games he has 5 rings and 4 finals MVP's to his name to go along with his 100 plus records as a result of this the goat debate nowadays that we are debating online becomes Wilt vs Jordan and Lebron.


After that, I would say Lebron's game 6 vs the Celtics in 2012 as if he had lost that year after choking in 2011 he would have been utterly destroyed by both the press and media and also afterwards in that offseason Miami's big three is broken up and Spoelstra is fired which changes everything for the Heat in 2013 and 2014.





Bird in 1984 according to the voters who spoke to him after the game was getting awarded the finals MVP regardless if they had lost or won that game 7 so Bird would have 2 rings and 3 finals MVP's still even with a loss in the 1984 finals.



Shaq's game 7 against portland is massive as if they lose that game. Then the Lakers most likely decide to trade Kobe elsewhere during the 2000-2001 regular season as with all the drama that started with Kobe and Shaq relationship with each other in the 2000 offseason I don't think the Lakers management would have the same patience to deal with Kobe's beef with Shaq in 2001 if they don't win the title in 2000.

If Hakeem loses in 1994 and 1995 then Ewing is ranked above him along with David Robinson as they most likely win titles in those two years while going through Hakeem to do so and with Hakeem's 9 first-round losses for his career to now go along with having no titles for his entire career then there would be a hell of a lot of justified criticism that people would have for Hakeem.

[Doranku]

It sounds ridiculous that one game going differently affects where I rank a guy after 20 years in the league, but that's the thin line these athletes have legacy wise. It's an interesting question, because even without the 2nd FMVP, his resume is absolutely arguable against anybody else that isn't in the top 10. I honestly don't know where I'd rank him, but what I do know is that all time comparisons of him vs. the likes of Malone, KG, Dirk, Robinson & Barkley etc. would become a lot more legitimate.

How about you, where would you rank him had they lost?

I still don't think I'd put any of those guys over him even if the Lakers lost in 2010. I have Kobe at #10 right now, I'd probably move him down to #12 behind Hakeem and Jerry West without the 2010 ring. Kobe was at like 30/6/5 on 47% before game 7 and I remember a thread on here debating the possibility of Kobe winning FMVP even if they lost game 7. It's not like Kobe struggled all series and then had that game 7 dud, I think that matters too.

[coastalmarker99]

I still don't think I'd put any of those guys over him even if the Lakers lost in 2010. I have Kobe at #10 right now, I'd probably move him down to #12 behind Hakeem and Jerry West without the 2010 ring. Kobe was at like 30/6/5 on 47% before game 7 and I remember a thread on here debating the possibility of Kobe winning FMVP even if they lost game 7. It's not like Kobe struggled all series and then had that game 7 dud, I think that matters too.

Agreed I remember at the end of game 5 that people and the voters were discussing to give the finals Mvp to Kobe regardless if the Lakers won the series or not as every star player outside of Kobe through the first 5 games was playing horribly as for example Ray Allen couldn't hit anything that series outside of game 2.

[2much_knowledge]

Also, does the fact that Kobe never beat Boston in this timeline put a sort of an asterisk on the 09 ring where he went up against the Magic in the finals instead of the Celtics who would have been there if Kg was healthy.

Yessss. He would be the new jerry west. Scoring machine, son of the Cs

[Axe]

He'd be top 15 at best