If you could give everyone in history that Jordan/Kobe/Bird drive who is the GOAT?

[light]

Here's Michael Jordan in The Last Dance on his reasons for retiring after only three finals appearances in 1993:

"When you're trying to do something competitively you lose some of the hunger and some of the edge."

He was 29 and his drive had vanished.

MJ cannot compare to LeBron James when it comes to drive.

LeBron's drive is relentless.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I agree that durant doesn't have much untapped potential. From what I have heard he is a basketball junkie.

Anyone who knows the game knows that.

This thread also highlights something pretty funny in that they think Jordan, Kobe, bird had the best work ethics. Its not actually true. Guys like harden, durant, lebron work just as hard and probably harder and care just as much, its just interpreted in a different way due to different personalities, circumstances, and eras

Its true shaq, Barkley, and Robinson didn't have the same dog, but the kobe/Jordan had GOAT work ethic/drive thing is a total myth.

[tontoz]

Anyone who knows the game knows that.

This thread also highlights something pretty funny in that they think Jordan, Kobe, bird had the best work ethics. Its not actually true. Guys like harden, durant, lebron work just as hard and probably harder and care just as much, its just interpreted in a different way due to different personalities, circumstances, and eras

Its true shaq, Barkley, and Robinson didn't have the same dog, but the kobe/Jordan had GOAT work ethic/drive thing is a total myth.

I would say Kobe and Bird really did have a manic work ethic, especially Kobe. Jordan not so much.

Jordan didnt even start lifting weights until he was maybe 27. In his younger days he didn't work out much during the off-season. He just played golf.

I would say in total lebron has worked as hard as anyone ever has. Also guys today benefit from being able to watch youtube clips of past players and copy their moves.

[AlternativeAcc.]

I would say Kobe and Bird really did have a manic work ethic, especially Kobe. Jordan not so much.

Jordan didnt even start lifting weights until he was maybe 27. In his younger days he didn't work out much during the off-season. He just played golf.

I would say in total lebron has worked as hard as anyone ever has. Also guys today benefit from being able to watch youtube clips of past players and copy their moves.

I believe Kobe and bird had great work ethic, Jordan as well. But there's a bunch of random guys we don't know who work harder everyday. People like to overrate how important work ethic was for these guys in order to reach their success. It definitely separated them from the average guy but talent, size, and other factors out of their control were always the main reasons they got to where they got. Theres some Asian kid who works probably 10x as hard as any of those guys who is just trying to be a respected member of his local rec league..

But I think we all intuitively understand this..

The problem is over glorifying Kobe and Jordan's competitive drives and blowing them up to superhuman level when in reality that drive and work ethic isn't uncommon.

[AussieSteve]

Barkley?

Few players did as much with as little off court work ethic

[Airupthere]

I believe Kobe and bird had great work ethic, Jordan as well. But there's a bunch of random guys we don't know who work harder everyday. People sometimes overrated how important work ethic was for these guys. It definitely separated them from the average guy but talent, size, and other factors out of their control were always the main reasons they got to where they got. Theres some Asian kid who works probably 10x as hard as any of those guys who is just trying to be a respected member of his local rec league..

But I think we all intuitively understand this..

The problem is over glorifying Kobe and Jordan's competitive drives and blowing them up to superhuman level when in reality that drive and work ethic isn't uncommon.

Its because they are able to pair it up with success. Im sure there are a ton of hardworkers that just did not end up in the same serendipitous situations whose stories of hardwork we wont ever hear about.

[AlternativeAcc.]

Its because they are able to pair it up with success. Im sure there are a ton of hardworkers that just did not end up in the same serendipitous situations whose stories of hardwork we wont ever hear about.

Exactly

Survivorship bias in full effect

[Micku]

Anyone who knows the game knows that.

This thread also highlights something pretty funny in that they think Jordan, Kobe, bird had the best work ethics. Its not actually true. Guys like harden, durant, lebron work just as hard and probably harder and care just as much, its just interpreted in a different way due to different personalities, circumstances, and eras

Its true shaq, Barkley, and Robinson didn't have the same dog, but the kobe/Jordan had GOAT work ethic/drive thing is a total myth.

It's not really a myth cuz their peers commented on it, didn't they? I think they said when they went to the Olympics, they saw Kobe working harder than any of them. They heard stories, but they actually got to see it live. This inspired Wade and LeBron to work out more on their game.

And with Kobe expanding on his game during the 10 season. He sought out Hakeem to work on his post moves, and executed during the regular season. After this, then LeBron and Dwight Howard follow suit.

Wade even commented on it here at the 5:07 min mark:




Not to say other guys don't work hard, but Kobe seemed like he was on another lvl of it. Maybe nowadays? I'm not too sure. But Kobe had stories of his work ethic that even his peers had to take a moment to praise him.

[tontoz]

I think there is some correlation between ability and and desire. if you know that you have the talent to be great and/or win titles that can be powerful motivation.

[AlternativeAcc.]

It's not really a myth cuz their peers commented on it, didn't they? I think they said when they went to the Olympics, they saw Kobe working harder than any of them. They heard stories, but they actually got to see it live. This inspired Wade and LeBron to work out more on their game.

And with Kobe expanding on his game during the 10 season. He sought out Hakeem to work on his post moves, and executed during the regular season. After this, then LeBron and Dwight Howard follow suit.

Wade even commented on it here at the 5:07 min mark:




Not to say other guys don't work hard, but Kobe seemed like he was on another lvl of it. Maybe nowadays? I'm not too sure. But Kobe had stories of his work ethic that even his peers had to take a moment to praise him.

Did Kobe do that everyday? Of course not... and if he did that's just dumb. Thats like working manual labor for 20 hours a day and not sleeping. Yeah you're working hard but you're not getting anywhere with it. And the word 'training' is so vague... what is training? Taking thousands of jumpers over and over? Thats muscle memory shit. I'm not impressed with those marathon jump shooting sessions masquerading as some next level training regime. Theres levels to thr game and watching tape/analyzing the mental side of the sport and how you can maximize commadre are aspects where Kobe i feel slacked...

I'm not surprised Kobe has these stories as he deeply cared about his peers opinions. I'm sure he did this deliberately at times so people could write about his work ethic. He was smart about personal branding, ill give Kobe that

[Micku]

Did Kobe do that everyday? Of course not... and if he did that's just dumb. Thats like working manual labor for 20 hours a day and not sleeping. Yeah you're working hard but you're not getting anywhere with it. And the word 'training' is so vague... what is training? Taking thousands of jumpers over and over? Thats muscle memory shit. I'm not impressed with those marathon jump shooting sessions masquerading as some next level training regime. Theres levels to thr game and watching tape/analyzing the mental side of the sport and how you can maximize commadre are aspects where Kobe i feel slacked...

I'm not surprised Kobe has these stories as he deeply cared about his peers opinions. I'm sure he did this deliberately at times so people could write about his work ethic. He was smart about personal branding, ill give Kobe that

It just sounds like you just don't want to believe that he did what his coaches, peers, and trainers said that he did. If you don't want to believe it, then there's nothing to really say more about it to change your mind. There are sources out there that many ppl commented on it, while he played and after. He got this type of talk even when he was a teenager.

Shaq commented on it, his teammates, opponents and etc. They were even ppl say that he worked just as hard or harder than MJ at his game. But this always always been the case with the nba. There are players who work hard, but there's another set who work even harder than them. And then there are some who don't even work hard and yet they are good still. Like it's been reported that Bird worked harder than his teammates in Boston as well and harder than most of his peers. I dunno if you believe that either.

You could argue that he worked harder but not smarter, but who knows for sure unless you are an expert on it. But the Lakers trainer said Kobe was an example of that sometimes talent doesn't mean everything. Kobe maxed out by working hard, but some of his other peers were more talented yet he is considered to be better than him. Here is the Lakers trainer comments:

"Kobe taught me that talent is the most overrated thing in life; it's what you do with your talent."
...

"He was talented, but what if I told you he wasn't the most talented guy out there?" Vitti says on the podcast. "I'm telling you, and I've had them all, there's nothing really special about Kobe. I mean he's a big guy, but he's not that big. He was quick, but he's not that quick. He's fast, he wasn't that fast. He was powerful, but he wasn't that powerful. I mean, there were other players that had more talent than he did, so what was there about him that more talented players had zero rings and he ended up with five?"

...

Bryant not only worked harder than anyone else, he worked smarter than everyone else, and he was intellectually brilliant at his job, Vitti says. During halftime, when other players looked at messages, emails, and tweets on their phones, Bryant watched film from the first half of the game on a laptop in the training room to see how he could do better in the second half. The superstar athlete himself has attributed his past progress on the court to an intense work ethic and obsessively studying other players.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/23/lake...aught-him.html

Gary Vitti been there since the 80s too. Seen Magic, Worthy, Kareem, Cooper, Shaq, Nick Van Exel, Eddie Jones, and etc. He wanted Shaq to be the GOAT, but Shaq was like naw, I ain't bout dat life. Kobe was, but didn't have the physical gifts.

He isn't the only who commented on this. Phil Jackson, Tex Winter, Horry, Fisher, Harper, Byron Scott. These guys seen legendary b-ball players in their time. MJ, Pippen, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, and etc. They praise Kobe specifically this way. I dunno what else you need.

[tontoz]

Yeah kobe was different. Jordan was a killer when he walked into the court whether it was a game or practice. Once he walked off the court that switch turned off. Seemed like kobe didn't have that off switch until he retired.

[2much_knowledge]

It just sounds like you just don't want to believe that he did what his coaches, peers, and trainers said that he did. If you don't want to believe it, then there's nothing to really say more about it to change your mind. There are sources out there that many ppl commented on it, while he played and after. He got this type of talk even when he was a teenager.

Shaq commented on it, his teammates, opponents and etc. They were even ppl say that he worked just as hard or harder than MJ at his game. But this always always been the case with the nba. There are players who work hard, but there's another set who work even harder than them. And then there are some who don't even work hard and yet they are good still. Like it's been reported that Bird worked harder than his teammates in Boston as well and harder than most of his peers. I dunno if you believe that either.

You could argue that he worked harder but not smarter, but who knows for sure unless you are an expert on it. But the Lakers trainer said Kobe was an example of that sometimes talent doesn't mean everything. Kobe maxed out by working hard, but some of his other peers were more talented yet he is considered to be better than him. Here is the Lakers trainer comments:



https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/23/lake...aught-him.html

Gary Vitti been there since the 80s too. Seen Magic, Worthy, Kareem, Cooper, Shaq, Nick Van Exel, Eddie Jones, and etc. He wanted Shaq to be the GOAT, but Shaq was like naw, I ain't bout dat life. Kobe was, but didn't have the physical gifts.

He isn't the only who commented on this. Phil Jackson, Tex Winter, Horry, Fisher, Harper, Byron Scott. These guys seen legendary b-ball players in their time. MJ, Pippen, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, and etc. They praise Kobe specifically this way. I dunno what else you need.

It sounds exactly like that. Let him be happy and tell him than lebron works harder even tho its not true so he can go to sleep in peace

[2much_knowledge]

It's still LeBron. His drive is also superior to Jordan, Kobe and Bird.

Who else has gone as hard as LeBron for so long? His drive for greatness started when he was 12 and it has never waned. Now he is the epitome of commitment and worth ethic in the NBA.

Jordan lost his competitive edge right in the middle of his career, leading to his early retirement - that's not indicative of great drive. MJ's passion only came in shorter bursts.

What a surprise, managed to slip lebrons name in a thread that has nothing to do with him