Anyone that doesn't think Worthy would've 4-peated with MJ from 87-91'...

[3ball]

So how did MJ do without Pippen?

That was his first couple healthy years, where he did better than lebron did in his first couple years (lottery)... And better than KD, Curry, Giannis and most young players do

[TheCorporation]

Thread cliffs: MJ couldn’t win without Pippen.

5 years, nothing

Maybe if he had six years he could get a 1st round win?

[dankok8]

What does prime Pippen being better than prime Worthy have to do with the thread? Worthy was the better player from 1988-1990 and in the first two of those years significantly better. MJ wouldn't 4 peat with Worthy but I think he would have won like 2 rings. That's a very reasonable prediction.

[TheCorporation]

What does prime Pippen being better than prime Worthy have to do with the thread? Worthy was the better player from 1988-1990 and in the first two of those years significantly better. MJ wouldn't 4 peat with Worthy but I think he would have won like 2 rings. That's a very reasonable prediction.

Reasonable post.

[Micku]

What does prime Pippen being better than prime Worthy have to do with the thread? Worthy was the better player from 1988-1990 and in the first two of those years significantly better. MJ wouldn't 4 peat with Worthy but I think he would have won like 2 rings. That's a very reasonable prediction.

What year you think tho?

I think in 88 and 89, MJ carried those teams. Even though in 89, he carried that team in the playoffs, they performed a better than in 88. But in 88 the Bulls team were "better" but that's mostly due to MJ dominating.

Even with Worthy tho, I doubt they'll win in 87. I still think they won't beat the 87 Celts. I'm not sure they'll win in 88. Maybe. I think they could win 89, 90 and 91.

But I say this, without really thinking that the Lakers won't have James Worthy. And how would a Oakley/MJ/Worthy be like?

[TheGoatest]

To be fair, Pippen wouldn't have made those all nba 1st team in the 80s probably.

So Pippen's All-NBA feats in the 80s wouldn't have been any different than Jordan's championship/Finals MVP feats in the 80s then?

[Micku]

So Pippen's All-NBA feats in the 80s wouldn't have been any different than Jordan's championship/Finals MVP feats in the 80s then?

Y'mean compared to the 90s? Like could MJ win those chips in the 80s?

Probably. Who knows. He'll definitely have more competition in the 80s. I'm guessing he won't go 6/6. But who knows. It's different to assess because that is about the quality team and how much MJ/Pippen could impact the team than individual talent. Like could the 96 Bulls beat the 86 Celts? Could the 93 Bulls beat the 83 Sixers? Could the 97 Bulls beat the 87 Lakers? The 80s teams would definitely give the Bulls a challenge too. But that's par for the course. The 80s had some of the best teams of all time. Probably more than any decade. It'll give most championship teams a challenge.

But with individual talent? That is more easy than teams imo in this case.

I don't see Pippen making those all nba teams in the 80s. It was just too stacked. Like if Worthy could barely make it, you know it's stacked. It's not shame tho. It's like whoever was the 1st team all nba center from 07-17 won't make it in the 90s. Centers was too stacked. They may not make it in the 80s either with Kareem, Hakeem, Moses, and Parish.

[3ball]

What does prime Pippen being better than prime Worthy have to do with the thread? Worthy was the better player from 1988-1990 and in the first two of those years significantly better. MJ wouldn't 4 peat with Worthy but I think he would have won like 2 rings. That's a very reasonable prediction.

If Pippen is anywhere near as good as you guys think he was, then Jordan isn't goat.. because you guys essentially think that mj only wins 6 with Pippen.

Do you realize that everyone in history that won 3 Finals needed a teammate to win FMVP or average 25 ppg for at least 1 of the Finals?.. But Pippen is 0/6 in FMVP and peaked at 21 ppg, so only mj could win 3 with Pippen.. so Jordan won in spite of Pippen's weaker help.. if mj had a FMVP teammate like everyone else, he would've won much more than 6 (he would've won some rings from 85-90')

Yet you're saying that Jordan might win 2 rings with Worthy?.. How is he not a lock to win with Worthy from. 89-91', when he nearly won with nothing from Pippen in 89' and 90'?

Worthy completely dominated the Pistons and Celtics, while Pippen never did anything

What game are you watching?

Worthy dominated many series as the best player - pippen never dominated

Durant is a better sidekick than draymond and that's similar to Worthy and Pippen... Durant is better than Worthy but the analogy holds - dominator role > draymond role

Ultimately, the only argument that Pippen has over Worthy is all-nba accolades, otherwise Worthy played far better in the playoffs.. Worthy dominated multiple dynasties while pippen played a lesser "draymond" role.

pippen was destroyed by old X-man, while Worthy destroyed prime X-man.. there's countless examples of this..

[Micku]

Yet you're saying that Jordan might win 2 rings with Worthy?.. How is he not a lock to win with Worthy from. 89-91', when he nearly won with nothing from Pippen in 89' and 90'?

He said would.

There's a difference between might and would.

Example:
MJ and Hakeem would win 8 rings.

MJ and Hakeem might win 8 rings. Less certainty.

Better example:
If you touch that fire. You would get burn.

That's different than: If you touch that fire, you might get burn.

Would is the past tense of will. Might is of may.

[Shooter]

Should we give MJ one more year to make it six total without Pippen to see if he can get out of the 1st round?

[dankok8]

What year you think tho?

I think in 88 and 89, MJ carried those teams. Even though in 89, he carried that team in the playoffs, they performed a better than in 88. But in 88 the Bulls team were "better" but that's mostly due to MJ dominating.

Even with Worthy tho, I doubt they'll win in 87. I still think they won't beat the 87 Celts. I'm not sure they'll win in 88. Maybe. I think they could win 89, 90 and 91.

But I say this, without really thinking that the Lakers won't have James Worthy. And how would a Oakley/MJ/Worthy be like?

Lakers keep Worthy or get a similar level player.

I too think 87 and 88 would be very tough. Worthy would be a huge upgrade for the Bulls but going through at least two of Celtics/Pistons/Lakers in those years would be very tough. Even MJ with a really good 2nd option and an average roster would have a hard time beating two teams in a row with 4-5 all-star caliber players which those teams were.

89 though different story. Celtics are gone from contention with Bird injured. Lakers still made the Finals but both Magic and Scott were hurt in the Finals so the Bulls would have been easy favorites to beat them. Ditto for 1990 where Bulls would be favored over the Blazers. But I still think beating the Pistons in both 89 and 90 would be tough. I think a split where Bulls get one and Pistons get another is reasonable.

And of course Bulls win in 1991 with Worthy.

So overall 2 rings with Worthy from 1987-1991 is what I expect. Before 1991 the rest of the Bulls roster wasn't strong.