How is this not the most impressive MJ fact?

[tpols]

Also from December 1990 to the game-winning shot in Utah to get 6 in 1998, MJ never lost more than 2 games in a row in the RS or playoffs. Thats gotta be the most ridiculous stat maybe in all sports.

That can't be true... you're telling me the Bulls never lost 2 games in a row for the entire 90s under MJ?

Not one slip up in like 8 years?

GOAT.

[Hamtaro CP3KDKG]

That can't be true... you're telling me the Bulls never lost 2 games in a row for the entire 90s under MJ?

Not one slip up in like 8 years?

GOAT.

More than 2 games, as in 3+.

Start of the 1991 RS, they lost 3 straight to start the season in November.

From December 1991 - June 1998.. Never lost more than 2 games in a row.

Regular season or playoffs.

INSANITY.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Impressive no doubt. Mike wasn't the GOAT scorer for no reason.

Pippen's 22ppg wasn't low for that era though. Far from actually.

For a #2, his numbers were above average and could have been #1 depending on the team. In a high paced offense like the No D Nuggets, TMC Warriors, Suns or Blazers he would have a clear uptick in points.

09' Mo Will...'.... 17.2 PER.. 2.3 BPM.. 0.165 WS/48.. 3.1 VORP....
89' Pippen........ 14.9 PER.. 0.4 BPM.. 0.080 WS/48.. 1.5 VORP..

09 Mo in the playoffs: Lower BPM/PER/WS48/VORP
89 Pippen in the playoffs: Higher BPM/PER/WS48/VORP

[3ball]

More than 2 games, as in 3+.

Start of the 1991 RS, they lost 3 straight to start the season in November.

From December 1991 - June 1998.. Never lost more than 2 games in a row.

Regular season or playoffs.

INSANITY.

^^^ that's impressive but other teams aren't that far off - other teams went long periods without losing 4 in a row for example

Otoh, Jordan led every series by 10 ppg over his sidekick - no one is remotely close to that - everyone else had teammates lead for entire playoff runs, let alone leading every series by 10 ppg margin

And the gap isn't due to Jordan's high average - it's due to his sidekick having the lowest peak PPG of any multiple champion sidekick, nearly ever

[3ball]

Pippen's 22ppg wasn't low for that era though.

22 ppg is a horrific peak scoring ability in any era... horrific.. pippen sucked..

Larry Hughes matched prime Pippen in 2005 and anyone can get prime pippen stats because it's nothing - Horry averaged prime pippen stats in the 95' Finals (18/10 on 55%), and JR did the same in the 15' ECF...

to name a few.. pippen was peak Horry caliber, although Iggy is the best stylistic fit..

Pippen could have been #1

Kukoc led the Bulls in BPM for the 94' Playoffs and Pippen was 4th on the team in WS/48 - so he was a bad #1 option despite having a fully-developed 3-peat system.

Furthermore, guys like KJ needed to average 23/11 with great efficiency to beat Magic's 1 seeded Lakers in 1990 - Pippen can't do that, nor could he be #1 option on a historic dynasty like Worthy (87', 88').

Ultimately, everyone that won 3 Finals needed a teammate to win FMVP or average 25 ppg for at least 1 of the Finals.. But Pippen is 0/6 in FMVP and peaked at 21 ppg, so only MJ could win 3 or 3-peat with Pippen

09 Mo in the playoffs: Lower BPM/PER/WS48/VORP
89 Pippen in the playoffs: Higher BPM/PER/WS48/VORP

Why do you guys care about carry-jobs vs bad teams?

Everyone beats bad teams with no help

It's the good teams like the #4 SRS Magic that Lebron can't beat with no help - that's the difference

89' Jordan beat the #1 SRS team with nothing from Pippen, while lebron couldn't beat the #4 SRS with nothing from Mo and a better team defense than Jordan had..

Ultimately, Lebron has never beaten a top 5 SRS team with poor scoring and efficiency from a sidekick (no carry-jobs against good teams in 2 decades of playing)..

09 Mo in the playoffs: Lower BPM/PER/WS48/VORP
89 Pippen in the playoffs: Higher BPM/PER/WS48/VORP

We know why Lebron can't have carry-jobs against good teams - he shoots poorly at the higher volume required (more contested jumpshooting required, which he avoids, defers and sucks at)

Btw, the 89' Cavs had 3 all-stars plus Ron Harper and were #1 SRS - that's a better team than lebron ever beat in the East and MJ did it with no help.. then mj nearly beat the 89' and 90' Pistons the same way - with no help and no defense... Meanwhile, lebron loses by record amount with super-teams and top seeds..

it's no comparison and lebron is literally the biggest fraud in sports history..

[dankok8]

Let's stop with the myth that MJ beat up on weak teams.

His Finals Opponents:

1991 Lakers = 58 wins +6.73 SRS
1992 Blazers = 57 wins +6.94 SRS
1993 Suns = 62 wins + 6.27 SRS
1996 Sonics = 64 wins +7.40 SRS
1997 Jazz = 64 wins +7.97 SRS
1998 Jazz = 62 wins +5.73 SRS

[Airupthere]

Let's stop with the myth that MJ beat up on weak teams.

His Finals Opponents:

1991 Lakers = 58 wins +6.73 SRS
1992 Blazers = 57 wins +6.94 SRS
1993 Suns = 62 wins + 6.27 SRS
1996 Sonics = 64 wins +7.40 SRS
1997 Jazz = 64 wins +7.97 SRS
1998 Jazz = 62 wins +5.73 SRS

And its not just the finals opponents. The path to the finals needs some mentioning too.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

22 ppg is a horrific peak scoring ability in any era... horrific.. pippen sucked..

Depending on the years, that is right in line with Barkley, Drexler, DRob and Richmond. In 1992 Pippen scored the same as Hakeem. In 1994, he scored more than Barkley. And in 1995, he scored the same as Drexler.

You couldn't name three #2's with better scoring. That's creme da la creme for a 90s sidekick, and alpha production in some cases.

Why do you guys care about carry-jobs vs bad teams?
Everyone beats bad teams with no help

It's the good teams like the #4 SRS Magic that Lebron can't beat with no help - that's the difference

You posted individual stats that weren't in your favor and now wanna hide behind TEAM strength

Playoff Pip clearly had better numbers and higher impact than Mo. Remember, most of these numbers are per 100 possessions.

Moreover the 09 Magic were better than both the Knicks and Cavaliers. So I would chill on opponent strength knowing that you post Jordan's finals numbers. They're great and all but they also came against finals opponents not as strong as Bron's.

89' Jordan beat the #1 SRS team with nothing from Pippen, while lebron couldn't beat the #4 SRS with nothing from Mo and a better team defense than Jordan had..

So if "SRS" is going to be your end all then why(?) aren't the 89 Cavs considered > Pistons



Don't move goalposts now.

[3ball]

And its not just the finals opponents. The path to the finals needs some mentioning too.

The 80's East required a super-team dynasty to win it

But remember when 1-star teams were routinely winning the East like Iverson, Kidd, Dwight and 07' Lebron?

Now imagine if Jordan played 11 seasons in a conference that weak teams were routinely winning - heck, the 89' Cavs had 3 all-stars with #1 SRS - that's better than any team lebron ever beat in the East, so MJ would've won the 09-18' East with his 89' Bulls (47-win 6 seed)

[AirBonner]

Op never uses context. Stupid fvck

[light]

Because scoring has never been that important.

It wasn't important before Jordan and it's not important after Jordan.

And just because Jordan and Wilt were obsessed with scoring doesn't mean everyone has to be obsessed with scoring.

[Kblaze8855]

22 ppg is a horrific peak scoring ability in any era... horrific.. pippen sucked..

Klay, Isiah Thomas, Dave Cowens, James Worthy, Willis Reed, Mark Price and Brad Daugherty and plenty of others....never got beyond 22ppg. KG and Duncan combined played like 38 years with I bet 4 23ppg seasons between them.


All of these people sucked? Or do we pick and choose for whom we acknowledge basketball Isnt ppg?

For people primarily praised for their all around game 18-22 is a pretty good level of scoring. At his peak Grant Hill was playing 40 minutes a game for 21 points....same time Penny was also doing 20-21.

19-22 a game has been a normal output for a great all around player all through history. Guys like Melo, Gervin, Nique, and so on who don’t intend to contribute much else shoot and score more than that. Most don’t.

These easy 30 point triple doubles today warp perception a bit. Teams played like teams. Didn’t one man army it to the extent they started after Jordan influenced a generation to play like him when they didn’t have the talent.

18-22 a game from your defense first largely playmaking wing has always been and continues to be pretty good. Guys have played 42 minutes for 21ppg in their primes and been hall of famers. A lot of them. And most of them couldn’t play defense.


Most great players score low 20s or less. Always have. Ray Allen never scored more than 22 a game on the Bucks and that was 6-7 years.

Theres a reason Shaq and Kobe were such a sensation. That shit was weird.

Two 30ppg guys isn’t supposed to happen on one team. You generally get one 25ish a game scorer and if he’s lucky....an 18 ppg other guy who probably can’t play D or make plays.

A normal second option is like...Rip Hamilton or Jeff Malone. And even that may be too good. Most teams in history would probably have Rip as the go to guy 19ppg and all.

[Kblaze8855]

Check the scoring leaders 18-22 a game random years. I just did it in 10 year increments going back and got 4, 6 and 8 hall of famers in the 3 years I checked. See the names you get.

20 a game is....pretty outstanding even for a #2 who is primarily a scorer.

It doesn’t make you some kinda elite scorer but it does traditionally make you a top second option even if you don’t contribute much else. Not that exceptional for the man(though it puts you among league leaders at times) but it is for the other guy. Especially before the super team era.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

That's what I'm saying, Blaze.

Dont even know why there's a misconception about Pippen's scoring. Claiming he was a garbage scorer in the 90s is like saying the bottom half of Top 10 90's scorers were trash. Factor in that most of Pippen's scoring was alongside one of the GOAT ballhogs (not meant to be derogatory) and I don't know how anyone comes to that conclusion. Anyone with a functioning brain anyway.

[Kblaze8855]

Thing is....I’m not sure there is a misconception in public. We just have a weirdo who can’t stop talking about it. Most of the time in the 90s Jordan would have his 30 or whatever Scottie would have like 19 and the other teams best player has 22.

I just picked a game at random from 92 and I kinda don’t even wanna use it since Jordan had 14 and Pippen 27 while Rick Fox led the Celtics with 21. That’s unusual. Let’s just use today’s date from the early 90s.....

90 Pippen had what was probably one of his ugliest lines with 17/10 but 12 turnovers. Jordan had 32. Sam Bowie led the Nets with 22.

91 no game but on the 23rd he had 43 on 16/17 shooting to lead the game and Gill led the Hornets with 20. On the 25th he had 33 on 14/18 and Jordan had 39. No Celtic topped 16.

92 no game today but next game Pippen 33 Jordan 23 Isiah led the Pistons with 24.


93 no game. He had 15/10/9 and 24 in the two closest games. Jordan 36 and 34 with Frank Brickowski having 26 and Shaq 30 to lead the bucks and Magic.


Random games....he might have 15....26...whatever. Other teams best player generally has 20 or so. That was normal at the time.

Nothing weird about 20 from your second option except it was better than usual....and ignores Pippens strength isn’t even scoring.


Its roughly like having a Zo type as a second option. 18-21 points and great D. Won’t pour on the scoring often but that isn’t why he’s there.