2 critical points about MJ and Lebron (for reference purposes)

[3ball]

2007 Mo Williams.... 17.3 ppg... 6.1 apg... 44.0 fg
2008 Mo Williams.... 17.2 ppg... 6.3 apg... 48.0 fg
2009 Mo Williams.... 17.8 ppg... 4.1 apg... 46.7 fg


He improved the Cavs 21 wins, and any player will see higher advanced stats on a 66-win team than a bad team

[1987_Lakers]

Similar to all of Lebron's key teammates, Mo was already a good player with better raw production before

Mo's efficiency rose playing with LeBron then took a huge hit when LeBron left to Miami, that is no coincidence. He had the best PER of his career in 2009 playing with LeBron, stop lying.

[1987_Lakers]

2007 Mo Williams.... 17.3 ppg... 6.1 apg... 44.0 fg
2008 Mo Williams.... 17.2 ppg... 6.3 apg... 48.0 fg
2009 Mo Williams.... 17.8 ppg... 4.1 apg... 46.7 fg

2007 Mo : 52 TS%
2008 Mo: 56.6 TS%
2009 & 2010 Mo: 58.8 TS% & 58 TS%
2011 without LeBron: 50 TS%

[RRR3]

Mo's efficiency rose playing with LeBron then took a huge hit when LeBron left to Miami, that is no coincidence. He had the best PER of his career in 2009 playing with LeBron, stop lying.

I already posted the stats. Stats he often uses. Mo was never close to as impactful as he was with LeBron any other year of his career. Snivelball is a compulsive liar. He can’t stop. He makes up stuff constantly. Almost everything he says is horseshit.

[RRR3]

2007 Mo : 52 TS%
2008 Mo: 56.6 TS%
2009 & 2010 Mo: 58.8 TS% & 58 TS%
2011 without LeBron: 50 TS%

Snivelball

[3ball]

Mo's efficiency rose playing with LeBron then took a huge hit when LeBron left to Miami, that is no coincidence. He had the best PER of his career in 2009 playing with LeBron, stop lying.

His PER was basically the same from 2008 to 2009

But his raw production declined (33% less assists)

Regardless, Mo was a better offensive player than 89' or 90' Pippen, across the board (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48), and the Cavs had a far better defense (#3) than the 90' Bulls (#19)

Yet lebron left and Jordan stayed

[sdot_thadon]

Except Jordan without Pippen

And this is the most informative post in this thread.

[3ball]

Snivelball

Mo's raw stats and efficiency in 2008 matched or exceeded his 2009 stats, while his advanced stats were higher because he improved the Cavs 21 wins (impact)

But everyone knows that Mo was broken up when Lebron left and lost motivation.. and unfortunately, the Cavs weren't defending champs, so Mo had no swagger after lebron left like Pippen did for 1 year in 94' (then pippen and the bulls looked shitty in 95')

[1987_Lakers]

Regardless, Mo was a better offensive player than 89' or 90' Pippen, across the board (PER, BPM, VORP, WS/48), and the Cavs had a far better defense (#3) than the 90' Bulls (#19)

As an overall player '89 & '90 Pippen was still better than Mo, both gave you similar offensive production, but Pippen's impact on the defensive end was miles ahead of Mo. That's the problem with you, all you do is compare players offensively while completely ignoring the defensive side of the ball.

[3ball]

I already posted the stats. Stats he often uses. Lebron was never close to as impactful as he was with Mo any other year of his career. Snivelball is a compulsive liar. He can’t stop. He makes up stuff constantly. Almost everything he says is horseshit.

Fixed.. lebron's best chemistry was with Mo - Mo showed lebron the best chemistry he's ever had

Mo was the only roster change in 2009 = 21 more wins

Mo turned the Cavs from 45-win, 2nd round losers into 66-win title favorites

^^^ Is there anything untruthful in the above

[warriorfan]

Mo was a complete scrub. LeBron made him look good because he gets the most out of his teammates unlike MJ.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K_9gGorAfqI

How many times did Scottie Pippen drop 50 points?

[3ball]

As an overall player '89 & '90 Pippen was still better than Mo, both gave you similar offensive production, but Pippen's impact on the defensive end was miles ahead of Mo. That's the problem with you, all you do is compare players offensively while completely ignoring the defensive side of the ball.

2009 Lebron had the #3 team defense compared to #19 for the 90' Bulls

So lebron had far more defensive help than Jordan, which is partly why he won 66 games..

The other reason was a much better offense, including Mo's superiority over Pippen and 2-time all-star Zydrunas (the pick-n-pop with Big Z was the Cavs' go-to play for YEARS)

[sdot_thadon]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K_9gGorAfqI

How many times did Scottie Pippen drop 50 points?

How many times did Scottie cry to make the allstar team as an injury replacement?

[sdot_thadon]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K_9gGorAfqI

How many times did Scottie Pippen drop 50 points?

Not only that, here in when the Rockets were wining chips we had a guy on our bench...Tracy Murray deep bench guy, had a 50 point game a few years later. Shit happens when you're a shooter sometimes.

[3ball]

How many times did Scottie cry to make the allstar team as an injury replacement?

Pippen was severely exposed for the 3rd straight season in the 1990 Playoffs.. he couldn't finish the ECF for the 2nd year in a row

(everyone felt that mj could've won both years with a sidekick that could actually finish the series)

Accordingly, no one had confidence in Pippen in 1991 (fool me once), so he wasn't an all-star that year

then pippen cut his teeth AGAIN on the Bad Boys II (92' Knicks), where his shitty play nearly caused massive upset loss..

And during the 93' Playoffs, pippen had lower PER, WS/48, OBPM and pace-adjusted scoring than 14' Wade (45% true shooting in Finals).. then he was destroyed by Ewing in 94'.. outplayed heads-up against Larry Johnson and Penny in 95'... 17 on 41% for the entire 96-98' Playoffs.. 56th option in 99-03' playoffs