How far does Jordan go on the 2018 Cavs in place of LeBron?

[FireDavidKahn]

Doesn't get nearly as far.

[3ball]

Jordan couldn't win with a 19ppg second option and a #3 post season defense, so he couldn't win with a 14ppg second option #10 defense. This is 3ball's rationale and definitively answers the question posed in the OP (at least as far as 3ball is concerned, others with more reasonable rationales that they don't have to constantly change to maintain the preferred narrative may have a different take). The answer is no, not even peak Jordan could do what old, tired, post peak LeBron did with the 2018 Cavs.

05' Zydrunas.... 17/9 and 2.1 blocks.. 19.5 PER.. 0.149 WS/48.. #12 team defense
90' Pippen........ 16/7 and 1.2 blocks.. 16.3 PER.. 0.087 WS/48.. #19 team defense


^^^ 90' Jordan nearly won the title with a worse cast than the 05' Cavs on both sides of the ball (the bulls had the #19 defense and a sidekick with worse offense than 05' Zydrunas).

Otoh, prime Lebron needed a much better cast than the 05' Cavs to be title-worthy - he wasn't title-worthy with the #19 defense and weak offensive teammates like 90' Jordan was....

3ball is concerned, others with more reasonable rationales

Ultimately, Jordan was an 8 seed without Pippen, while Lebron was a 9 seed with the East all-star center (05'), and then with Ingram/Rondo/Green/Kuzma (19')

Again - the Lebron/Zydrunas all-star duo were lottery, and needed to acquire a 22/5/5 all-defender and the future COY to make the playoffs in 06'.. That's a lot of help and easily enough help to compete in a conference that 1-star teams routinely won, while Jordan just had a rebounder (oakley) in a conference that required a super-team to win.

So Lebron sucks compared to Jordan and the facts always show this..

[Ainosterhaspie]

LMAO. I've already been through that with you in this thread. 05 Cavaliers tell us nothing about 18 Cavaliers. You can't substitute them in as a proxy and compare them to the 90 Bulls and act like it says anything about the 18 Cavs. If this was 2005 and you were trying to make a prediction about the future, that would make sense, bit once the future happens those projections are rendered meaningless by what actually happened.

Your inability to process and retain basic concepts like this is why everyone on this board knows you're suffering from some form of cognitive impairment. Seriously get it looked at. Your arguments when looked at as a whole are completely irrational.

[3ball]

LMAO. I've already been through that with you in this thread. 05 Cavaliers tell us nothing about 18 Cavaliers. You can't substitute them in as a proxy and compare them to the 90 Bulls and act like it says anything about the 18 Cavs. If this was 2005 and you were trying to make a prediction about the future, that would make sense, bit once the future happens those projections are rendered meaningless by what actually happened.

Your inability to process and retain basic concepts like this is why everyone on this board knows you're suffering from some form of cognitive impairment. Seriously get it looked at. Your arguments when looked at as a whole are completely irrational.

the 90' Bulls had WEAKER offensive teammates than the 05' Cavs, and a WEAKER defense, but both teams were rookies compared to the champion vets on the 18' Cavs

You can't compare veteran champions to rookie and sophomore teams like the 90' Bulls or 05' Cavs

[Ainosterhaspie]

the 90' Bulls had WEAKER offensive teammates than the 05' Cavs, and a WEAKER defense, but both teams were rookies compared to the champion vets on the 18' Cavs

You can't compare veteran champions to rookie and sophomore teams like the 90' Bulls or 05' Cavs

You picked the comparison not me. If it doesn't work, that's your problem not mind. You don't want to use 90 Jordan, fine. Pick another version. But you don't get to use 05 LeBron and 05 Cavs to draw conclusions about 18 LeBron and 18 Cavs that presume that the 18 Cavs and LeBron performed differently than they actually performed.

If that's too confusing for you. Try again. You still aren't making a rational argument.

[3ball]

You picked the comparison not me. If it doesn't work, that's your problem not mind. You don't want to use 90 Jordan, fine. Pick another version. But you don't get to use 05 LeBron and 05 Cavs to draw conclusions about 18 LeBron and 18 Cavs that presume that the 18 Cavs and LeBron performed differently than they actually performed.

If that's too confusing for you. Try again. You still aren't making a rational argument.

Lebron was a veteran champion in 2018 but was beaten by record amount, while pre-title Jordan was nearly beating the champs with a young team.

So you're trying to compare champion lebron to pre-title Jordan, and Jordan still outperforms him

Ultimately, prime Lebron needed a much better cast than the 05' Cavs to be title-worthy and Jordan didn't..

[SATAN]

ECF loss imo

Raptors had essentially someone just as good as MJ on their roster

[HoopsNY]

ECF loss imo

Raptors had essentially someone just as good as MJ on their roster

Who in their right mind would equate DeRozan with Jordan? Is DeRozan even top 100 all-time, let alone a top 5 player in his own era?

[Axe]

Who in their right mind would equate DeRozan with Jordan? Is DeRozan even top 100 all-time, let alone a top 5 player in his own era?

Apparently that would mean derozan is a ballhog too, even tho he isn't. Lmao.

[And1AllDay]

ECF loss imo

Raptors had essentially someone just as good as MJ on their roster

[light]

Look at this all-time great starting 5 for the Cavs in the 2018 Finals:

George Hill
JR Smith
LeBron James
Kevin Love
Tristan Thompson

Vs

Steph Curry
Klay Thompson
Kevin Durant
Draymond Green
Kevon Looney

The fact that this Finals matchup even happened is mind blowing, but that’s how truly great LeBron is.

Everyone knows that MJ was not capable of carrying a team like the 2018 Cavs anywhere. Even his most ardent supporters understand that.

[2much_knowledge]

Who in their right mind would equate DeRozan with Jordan? Is DeRozan even top 100 all-time, let alone a top 5 player in his own era?

He is not right in the head. Gotta admire the willingness to make a jackass out of himself tho