Top NBA defenders of all time

[Micku]

Scottie Pippen and Kawhi are definitely better defensive players than Tony Allen and Bowen. Also, in Allen's case, he didn't exactly play heavy minutes so he could pretty much go full on out the entire time. Still didn't have the impact a Pippen or Kawhi had either way. You're of course right about the top 10. If you could put a non big man in the top 10 only Pippen and Kawhi would warrant that kind of respect. Gary Payton as the 6th best defensive player of all time, though? As I said before, that's just laughable. Do people really think he deserved that DPOY he got in 96 by actual impact? As I've pointed out before, the Spurs got BETTER defensively trading Rodman away and were 3rd in defense. David Robinson was clearly the DPOY in 96 and that is only proven by 97 when he played 8 games and they dropped to DEAD LAST in defense. Sonics clearly would not drop to dead last if Payton missed the 97 season lol. Paytons drating in 96 is actually much higher than the overall teams that made them 2nd. They were second with a 102.1 after the Bulls and Payton was a 105. You can say, oh that's because of rebounds and this and that...except Nate McMillan had a 98 drating. He was always a better defensive player than Payton. How do you win DPOY and have someone like OP putting you as the 6th greatest defensive player of all time when you weren't even the best defensive player at your position on the team?

Well, Tony Allen at this peak did have a lot of impact on his team on the defensive end, but as you said he never played heavy minutes. In 2011, he had more impact on his team than Marc Gasol. You can see the plus/minus stats, but he only average 20 mins a game. And I suppose you can argue it's inflated due to the lineup Memphis had. I would say at his peak, he was better than Kawhi, but Kawhi had more years and mins where he showcase it. In terms of one on one, I'm unsure of the oFG% with both players. For me with the eye test, Tony Allen was the best one on one defender, while Kawhi was the better team defender. Tony Allen was pretty high up there. I suppose given the fact that Tony Allen didn't play as often as Kawhi and Kawhi has more accolade, I would give the nod to him. But I can see an argument. Tim Duncan also doesn't have dpoy awards, but he's better than the guys who did.

In general for perimeter players it's Pippen, Kawhi and MJ for me. MJ having the best DBPM in the league at his peak in 88 and 89, Pippen having the best Dtrg on the team a few teams with the Bulls, Kawhi because of the consistency of while he was with the Spurs.

But the top part of the list should be big men for the most part. And only those three to me deserves a spot imo.

[rmt]

Duncan at #20 is terrible - as is him never winning a DPOY.

8 All-Defensive First Team, 7 All-Defensive Second Team.