Harden right now is better than 87 Jordan

[StrongLurk]

Harden has more points, rebounds, and assists and is scoring much more efficiently than Jordan.

Pace is very similar, Harden last year might have been better as well.

[dreamshake]

Sorry. There's two ends to the game of basketball and Harden only plays one of them.

[3ball]

Harden has more points, rebounds, and assists and is scoring much more efficiently than Jordan.

Pace is very similar as well.

Teammate 3-point attempts per game:

87' Jordan:[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 2
20' Harden:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR]30

Harden's points require ridiculous spacing and hands-off defense, whereas MJ got his points against no spacing and tough defense

Harden also has a HOF teammate to command his own attention, whereas MJ had nothing - he was the sole focus of the defense

then there's Harden and MJ's defense....

so between the spacing, physical defense, HOF teammates/defensive attention, and individual defensive performance, it's comparison.. MJ destroys Harden... carry on..

[NBAGOAT]

obviously this is not going be well received but this isnt that crazy. People dont have a problem even having 06 kobe or 09 wade over 87 mj

[dreamwarrior]

Sure, but what shoes were Jordan wearing? Every single shoe that Jordan wore during his playing days were vastly inferior to the shoes of the last 10 years. Compared to now they're like Chuck Taylor's. Even with the air bubbles, the shoes had a super stiff sole and many of them had poor ankle support. Jordan also routinely wore high tops which were detrimental to a player at his position as SG's now mostly wear low tops. Imagine Jordan having the comfort, support, and responsiveness of Harden's or Lebron's shoes. He'd have scored 45PPG

[StrongLurk]

obviously this is not going be well received but this isnt that crazy. People dont have a problem even having 06 kobe or 09 wade over 87 mj

Exactly.

MJ was actually on another level of his own 88-93.

I mean, we have Harden putting up almost 40ppg on 54.8 EFG%.

MJ was 37ppg at 48.4 EFG%...

Let's look at PER 100/POSS

Harden in 18-19
48.2/8.9/10 with 2.7 stls

Harden in 19-20
48/7.2/9.1 with 2.4stls

MJ in 86-87
46.4/6.6/5.8 with 3.6 stls

Harden last two years is better all the while scoring more efficiently.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Taking into account the D'antoni "system"? I would still take 87 Jordan.

If Harden does anything remotely similar in the postseason, I'll gladly change my mind.

[mr4speed]

Teammate 3-point attempts per game:

87' Jordan:[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] 2
20' Harden:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR]30

Harden's points require ridiculous spacing and hands-off defense, whereas MJ got his points against no spacing and tough defense

Harden also has a HOF teammate to command his own attention, whereas MJ had nothing - he was the sole focus of the defense

then there's Harden and MJ's defense....

so between the spacing, physical defense, HOF teammates/defensive attention, and individual defensive performance, it's comparison.. MJ destroys Harden... carry on..

Another thing to consider is the advantages players are given on the offensive end today. The "cupping" and "carrying" of the ball is ridiculous and even worse is the "step-back" jumper, which is really a hop, where both feet leave the ground and then are allowed to take another step to gather balance to get off the shot. The traveling call could be made almost every trip down the court. Yes, the game has changed and the rule book ignored. This is another reason why "stats" should not be compared across era's trying to prove player A is greater than player B. No disrespect intended for the players today but, the game has been changed with a conscience effort made for the offensive side in order to gain popularity and promote the idea we are seeing something special IMO.

[StrongLurk]

Taking into account the system D'aNtoni "runs"? I would still take 87 Jordan.

If Harden does anything remotely similar in the postseason, I'll gladly change my mind.

Harden against the Warriors last year
35/7/5.5 with 2.2 steals on 59.4TS%, 53.4 EFG%

Jordan 87 playoffs was swept by the Celtics (no surprise).
35.7/7/6 with 2 steals on 52.9TS%, 42.9 EFG%

So yeah, this thread has proven Harden over the least 120 games or so has been better than 86-87 Jordan.

Idk why people want to fight so much on this. Jordan was only 23 at the time...Jordan isn't invincible.

[Smoke117]

Water is wet.

[And1AllDay]

Sorry. There's two ends to the game of basketball and Harden only plays one of them.

mikes never been a good defender bruh you new to the game of ball?

Mike has zero seasons under 100 def rating, just like harden.

harden career best 103
mike career best 100

not terribly far off if we be real about it

[StrongLurk]

Thread Summary:

Let's look at PER 100/POSS in the regular season. Harden has a sizable advantage on scoring efficiency regarding EFG% and FT%

Harden in 18-19
48.2/8.9/10 with 2.7 stls

Harden in 19-20
48/7.2/9.1 with 2.4stls

MJ in 86-87
46.4/6.6/5.8 with 3.6 stls

Harden against the Warriors last year
35/7/5.5 with 2.2 steals on 59.4TS%, 53.4 EFG%

Jordan 87 playoffs was swept by the Celtics (no surprise).
35.7/7/6 with 2 steals on 52.9TS%, 42.9 EFG%

So yeah, this thread has proven Harden over the least 120 games or so has been better than 86-87 Jordan.

Idk why people want to fight so much on this. Jordan was only 23 at the time...Jordan isn't invincible.

[3ball]

87 Jordan would average 45+ in today's game, so no

harden is weak for only getting 38

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Harden against the Warriors last year
35/7/5.5 with 2.2 steals on 59.4TS%, 53.4 EFG%

Jordan 87 playoffs was swept by the Celtics (no surprise).
35.7/7/6 with 2 steals on 52.9TS%, 42.9 EFG%

So yeah, this thread has proven Harden over the least 120 games or so has been better than 86-87 Jordan.

Idk why people want to fight so much on this. Jordan was only 23 at the time...Jordan isn't invincible.

Your thread hasn't proven anything.

Only that when you see numbers you prematurely ejaculate.

Harden benefits from his teams system. The lack of perimeter rules. And difference in pace. Chicago played around ~95 while this years Rockets team is around ~106.

You could argue that Harden is better, but good look "proving it". Because you haven't done that yet.

[StrongLurk]

87 Jordan would average 45+ in today's game, so no

harden is weak for only getting 38

Wrong, we are using PER 100/POSS to account for pace. Defense wasn't good in 87 so you have nothing to stand on there. Now 96-05 defenses/pace were different so there is a something to think about then...but not 87.

Thread Summary:

Let's look at PER 100/POSS in the regular season. Harden has a sizable advantage on scoring efficiency regarding EFG% and FT%

Harden in 18-19
48.2/8.9/10 with 2.7 stls

Harden in 19-20
48/7.2/9.1 with 2.4stls

MJ in 86-87
46.4/6.6/5.8 with 3.6 stls

Harden against the Warriors last year
35/7/5.5 with 2.2 steals on 59.4TS%, 53.4 EFG%

Jordan 87 playoffs was swept by the Celtics (no surprise).
35.7/7/6 with 2 steals on 52.9TS%, 42.9 EFG%

So yeah, this thread has proven Harden over the least 120 games or so has been better than 86-87 Jordan.

Idk why people want to fight so much on this. Jordan was only 23 at the time...Jordan isn't invincible.