Moment in GOATness

[SomeBlackDude]

Naaaaaa...... it's called no offense, over the hill veterans in a watered down era vs. higher paced, much better all around players.

no, it's called the nba not allowing defense to be played.

it's in writing, chief.

[andgar923]

Naaaaaa...... it's called no offense, over the hill veterans in a watered down era vs. higher paced, much better all around players.

The Jazz were ran a surgeon precise offense. They had 3pt shooters, low post players, mid range assasins all with high IQ and great passers.

[Hey Yo]

no, it's called the nba not allowing defense to be played.

it's in writing, chief.

There's a lot of shit in writing, doesn't mean it's enforced 100% of the time.

If you don't think that players are more renowned offensively than they were in 1997-98, then that just proves you weren't watching back then.

[ShawkFactory]

I know that reply threads are forbidden, but this needs it's own thread.

The final 3 minutes of the Game 6 98 NBA Finals are what the epitome of GOATness is all about.

Running on fumes and having a bad shooting game as he's forced to do almost everything due to Pip's injury, MJ puts together a clinic of skill, wit, determination and IQ.

People always claim that you'd have to cut MJ's heart out to win and this is an example of those hyperbole cliches people throw around, but guess what? they're used because they're true.

In this clip of the final 3 minutes we get a glimpse of what MJ was about. He is responsible for almost every defensive and offensive possession that kept them in the game and ultimately won them the game.

Aside from the obvious defensive and offensive plays, what gets overlooked is his high IQ.

He knows the shot clock, he knows the situation and knows what to do. He attacks and puts pressure on the defence using minimal time and thus maximizing his team's chances.

He doesn't dribble, dribble and dribble taking time away. He doesn't wait or tries to decide, he simply takes matters into his own hands and manages the game and more importantly the CLOCK. It's all precise as if he has a natural timer in his head. He knows his shot isn't dropping so he attacks and puts pressure on the defense instead of bailing them out with forced 3pointers. He doesn't let his fate lay on the hands of others as he takes initiative and decides who will win or lose.

Sit back and enjoy on how it should be done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=530z-_yjdlU

I know this thread is just as much about Lebron as it is Jordan.

Check out the last minute and a half of game 7 in 2013. Offensive rebound with a minute left (that would lead to a Battier miss but still), jumper to put them up 4 with ~35 seconds left, steal on the next possession and 2 FTs right after that, then a heavy contest to force a awkward 3 from Ginobili with about 20 seconds left.

Not quite like the GOAT here, but a fine job of closing out a game 7 in the finals in a completely back and forth game.

[SomeBlackDude]

The Jazz were ran a surgeon precise offense. They had 3pt shooters, low post players, mid range assasins all with high IQ and great passers.

nah, it's cuz they couldn't score 140 points in regulation against advanced modern defensive schemes like today.

'91 lakers
reg. season: 106.3 ppg (13th in nba); 112.1 ortg (5th in nba)
finals: 91.6 ppg ([COLOR="Red"]-14.7 ppg[/COLOR]); 104.5 ortg

'92 blazers
reg season: 111.4 pts/gm (#4 in nba); 111.4 ortg (#7 in nba)
finals vs bulls: 96.7 pts/gm ([COLOR="Red"]-14.7 pts/gm[/COLOR]); 103 ortg

'93 suns
reg. season: 113.4 pts/gm (#1 in nba); 113.3 ortg
finals vs bulls: 106.7 pts/gm ([COLOR="Red"]-6.7 pts/gm[/COLOR]); 113 ortg


'96 sonics
reg season: 104.5 pts/gm (#2 in nba); 110.3 ortg (#8 in nba)
finals vs bulls: 89.2 pts/gm ([COLOR="Red"]-15.3 pts/gm[/COLOR]); 106.7 ortg

'97 jazz
reg season: 103.1 pts/gm (#2 in nba); 113.6 ortg (#2 in nba)
finals: 87.2 pts/gm ([COLOR="Red"]-15.9 pts/gm[/COLOR]); 103.8 ortg

'98 jazz
reg season: 101 pts/gm (#1 in nba) 112.7 ortg (#1 in the nba)
finals: 80 pts/gm ([COLOR="Red"]-21 pts/gm[/COLOR]); 96.1 ortg

but nah, all those teams just got old and unskilled as soon as the finals started.

[Hey Yo]

The Jazz were ran a surgeon precise offense. They had 3pt shooters, low post players, mid range assasins all with high IQ and great passers.

yeah, it was called "get the ball to Malone cause nobody else is scoring"

That Utah team's middle name was un-athletic. They did nothing that season to address their scoring woes from the previous season.

[superduper]

There's a lot of shit in writing, doesn't mean it's enforced 100% of the time.

If you don't think that players are more renowned offensively than they were in 1997-98, then that just proves you weren't watching back then.

You do realize the footwork and overall basketball skills involved in creating a quality efficient mid range/post shot with the clogged up/no spacing of that era is a lot more difficult than chucking 50 threes a game right?

There's a reason Korver said "I spent over half my career looking for efficient twos". Look at the way that is worded. Just by that quote you can see it was a lot more difficult to score back then due to the rules/spacing/real defense/etc. and that's coming from one of the greatest pure shooters in history.

[Hey Yo]

nah, it's cuz they couldn't score 140 points in regulation against advanced modern defensive schemes like today.

'91 lakers
reg. season: 106.3 ppg (13th in nba); 112.1 ortg (5th in nba)
finals: 91.6 ppg ([COLOR="Red"]-14.7 ppg[/COLOR]); 104.5 ortg

'92 blazers
reg season: 111.4 pts/gm (#4 in nba); 111.4 ortg (#7 in nba)
finals vs bulls: 96.7 pts/gm ([COLOR="Red"]-14.7 pts/gm[/COLOR]); 103 ortg

'93 suns
reg. season: 113.4 pts/gm (#1 in nba); 113.3 ortg
finals vs bulls: 106.7 pts/gm ([COLOR="Red"]-6.7 pts/gm[/COLOR]); 113 ortg


'96 sonics
reg season: 104.5 pts/gm (#2 in nba); 110.3 ortg (#8 in nba)
finals vs bulls: 89.2 pts/gm ([COLOR="Red"]-15.3 pts/gm[/COLOR]); 106.7 ortg

'97 jazz
reg season: 103.1 pts/gm (#2 in nba); 113.6 ortg (#2 in nba)
finals: 87.2 pts/gm ([COLOR="Red"]-15.9 pts/gm[/COLOR]); 103.8 ortg

'98 jazz
reg season: 101 pts/gm (#1 in nba) 112.7 ortg (#1 in the nba)
finals: 80 pts/gm ([COLOR="Red"]-21 pts/gm[/COLOR]); 96.1 ortg

but nah, all those teams just got old and unskilled as soon as the finals started.

Inflated point totals and offensive ratings due to expansion/watered down era.

[SomeBlackDude]

There's a lot of shit in writing, doesn't mean it's enforced 100% of the time.

If you don't think that players are more renowned offensively than they were in 1997-98, then that just proves you weren't watching back then.

Inflated point totals and offensive ratings due to expansion/watered down era.

this guy





2018-2019
ortg: 110.1 ([COLOR="Red"]highest all time[/COLOR])
efg: .522 efg ([COLOR="Red"]highest all time[/COLOR])


Lakers play defense with hands behind their backs because they were sick of being called for fouls

[3ball]

i aint gonna lie.. jordan got some harden type calls back in the day


lol@ 2:45 ... what foul

[COLOR="DarkRed"]5:11 coulda went either way too
[/COLOR]

then on the game winner he punches russells achilles lmao

Nah, the replay at 5:10 showed that Stockton was cringed up and turned sideways, despite being there on time and otherwise drawing a great charge.. again, if not for the turning sideways..

But that's a charge Stockton wouldn't get in today's game because the players are spaced out more now to guard 3-point shooters.. it's not that they didn't shoot threes and space the floor in the late 90's, but not nearly as well as today - Stockton would've been further away, and he also wouldn't be paint-camping at the 4:10 mark in today's game either, because his man would be further from the paint

And the rodman charge on Stockton wasn't a charge - MJ was right - Rodman's allowed to come down.

Also, there was a lot of forearm checking on the perimeter that isn't allowed today.. between the hand--checking, paint-camping, physicality and weaker spacing, it's clear why ortg was only 105 back then, compared to a record 110 today.

I also notice how there's more player movement in the middle of the floor, which makes the game look more random compared to today's open-paint, neat/organized, marching band look, and predictable/planned movements.

[Hey Yo]

You do realize the footwork and overall basketball skills involved in creating a quality efficient mid range/post shot with the clogged up/no spacing of that era is a lot more difficult than chucking 50 threes a game right?

There's a reason Korver said "I spent over half my career looking for efficient twos". Look at the way that is worded. Just by that quote you can see it was a lot more difficult to score back then due to the rules/spacing/real defense/etc. and that's coming from one of the greatest pure shooters in history.

With the illegal defense back then, it was a lot of man to man defense. No shading/help D allowed against the player holding the ball. It was much easier to do what you wanted.

[Hey Yo]

this guy





2018-2019
ortg: 110.1 ([COLOR="Red"]highest all time[/COLOR])
efg: .522 efg ([COLOR="Red"]highest all time[/COLOR])

Memo's are from 2015 and 2016.

Yet they're just now enforcing them 3-4yrs later????



Like I said, just cause it's in writing doesn't mean it's enforced 100% of the time.

What next? There hasn't been a hand check on defense in 10yrs....

[SomeBlackDude]

It was much easier to do what you wanted.

^rockets scored 126 in regulation and the beard had a 50 pt triple double in that game.

the lakers were litrally playing defense with their hands behind their backs. the latest innovation in modern advanced defense.

[SomeBlackDude]

Memo's are from 2015 and 2016.

Yet they're just now enforcing them 3-4yrs later????



Like I said, just cause it's in writing doesn't mean it's enforced 100% of the time.

What next? There hasn't been a hand check on defense in 10yrs....

why do you keep doing this to yourself?

NBA OFFICIAL VIDEO: 2018-19 Points of Education Video

How NBA 'freedom of movement' rules will effect refs in 2018/19 season | The Jump

r.i.p.

[Hey Yo]

^rockets scored 126 in regulation and the beard had a 50 pt triple double in that game.

the lakers were litrally playing defense with their hands behind their backs. the latest innovation in modern advanced defense.

It's called "keeping my hands away from a possible rip though or drive into my arms/hands.


Jesus Christ, I ought to be charging you for today's lesson.