Healthy Kyrie vs prime Pippen in playoffs

[3ball]

.
Kyrie[COLOR="White"]m[/COLOR] 16-17':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 23.9 ppg.. 57.3 ts.. 41% threes.. 89% ft.. 23.0 PER.. 0.181 ws/48.. 2.9 rpg.. 4.9 apg.. 2.5 tov
Pippen 91-96':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 19.8 ppg.. 52.4 ts.. 28% threes.. 72% ft.. 19.7 PER.. 0.157 ws/48.. 8.3 rpg.. 5.9 apg.. 3.1 tov

Kyrie[COLOR="White"]m[/COLOR] 16-17':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 3.6 obpm.. -0.4 dbpm.. 3.1 bpm.. outplayed league mvp.. hit Finals-winning shot
Pippen 91-96':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 3.1 obpm... 3.6 dbpm.. 6.7 bpm.. outplayed by schrempf.. no winning shots


Kyrie clearly contributed more to wins, b-b-but defense
.

[scuzzy]

what was Kyrie's #'s in playoffs before or after Lebron?








bonus points for Ingraham's playoff #'s


2x bonus MJ's #'s in Finals before Pip

[3ball]

what was Kyrie's #'s in playoffs [COLOR="Navy"]before Lebron?[/COLOR]



bonus points for Ingraham's

Same as Lebron's playoff stats before Hughes or Brown

Bonus points for 3ball..

[3ball]

2x bonus MJ's #'s in Finals before Pip[/I]

Same as lebron's before Wade

And Wade > Pippen

2x bonus points for 3ball..

[superduper]

I think I'm traumatized because I just witnessed a ****ing cold blooded murder...

[SomeBlackDude]

b-b-but defense

defense was the key to the bulls' championship runs. they faced a bunch of teams that were more talented offensively than they were, but their d was what won it all for them. pip was a huge part of that. don't turn into one of those 14 year old clueless lestans.

'96 sonics
reg season: 104.5 pts/gm (#2 in nba); 110.3 ortg (#8 in nba)
finals vs bulls: 89.2 pts/gm ([COLOR="Red"]-15.3 pts/gm[/COLOR]); 106.7 ortg

'97 jazz
reg season: 103.1 pts/gm (#2 in nba); 113.6 ortg (#2 in nba)
finals: 87.2 pts/gm ([COLOR="Red"]-15.9 pts/gm[/COLOR]); 103.8 ortg

'98 jazz
reg season: 101 pts/gm (#1 in nba) 112.7 ortg (#1 in the nba)
finals: 80 pts/gm ([COLOR="Red"]-21 pts/gm[/COLOR]); 96.1 ortg

also, people act like kyrie is hardenesque on d, but he's a really solid defender at the pg spot. boston has been a top 5 defense with him. he's obviously not in the same stratosphere as pip in that regard, but severely underrated.

[bigkingsfan]

It's all about that D

[Real14]

Kyrie wins again!

[3ball]

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[COLOR="Navy"]Pippen was bad in MOST of the big series:[/COLOR]

1988 PLAYOFFS:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 10.0 on 46.5%
1989 PLAYOFFS:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 13.1 on 46.2% (9.7 on 40.4% in ecf)

1990 ECF[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] vs[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] DET:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 16.6 on 42.8% (2 pts, 1-10 in game 7)

1992 ECSF vs NYN:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 16.0 on 40.2%

1994 ECSF vs NYN:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 21.7 on 40.5% (worst-ever 1st option w/ goat choke)

1996 ECSF vs NYN:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 15.6 on 33.0%
1996 FINAL vs SEA:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 15.7 on 34.3%

1997 RD 1 vs WAS:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 16.7 on 38.3%
1997 ECF[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] vs. MIA:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 16.8 on 41.7%

1998 ECF[COLOR="White"]S[/COLOR] vs[COLOR="White"]N[/COLOR] IND:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 16.6 on 39.2%
1998 FINAL vs UTA:[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 15.7 on 41.0%

[3ball]

defense was the key to the bulls' championship runs. they faced a bunch of teams that were more talented offensively than they were, but their d was what won it all for them. pip was a huge part of that. don't turn into one of those 14 year old clueless lestans.

'96 sonics
reg season: 104.5 pts/gm (#2 in nba); 110.3 ortg (#8 in nba)
finals vs bulls: 89.2 pts/gm ([COLOR="Red"]-15.3 pts/gm[/COLOR]); 106.7 ortg

'97 jazz
reg season: 103.1 pts/gm (#2 in nba); 113.6 ortg (#2 in nba)
finals: 87.2 pts/gm ([COLOR="Red"]-15.9 pts/gm[/COLOR]); 103.8 ortg

'98 jazz
reg season: 101 pts/gm (#1 in nba) 112.7 ortg (#1 in the nba)
finals: 80 pts/gm ([COLOR="Red"]-21 pts/gm[/COLOR]); 96.1 ortg

also, people act like kyrie is hardenesque on d, but he's a really solid defender at the pg spot. boston has been a top 5 defense with him. he's obviously not in the same stratosphere as pip in that regard, but severely underrated.

They only needed great defense because Pippen's anemic offense often meant they couldn't just outscore teams

Pippen averaged a worst-ever 15 ppg on 34% in the 96' Finals, so OF COURSE the team had to make up for it defensively.. don't turn into one of people that uses the the high-school-level media logic

Look at the previous post showing how many series the bulls had to play great D to offset pippen's anemia scoring the basketball... ... he's BY FAR the worst offensive 2nd option of any dynasty, and the majority of champions
.

[SomeBlackDude]

They only needed great defense because Pippen's anemic offense often meant they couldn't just outscore teams

they needed great defense because they were playing teams that had great offensive players and systems.

BASKETBALL; Pippen Performs Magic on Defense

It was Showtime, Chicago style, tonight. And it featured all the Bulls, rather than just Michael Jordan.

Chicago's 107-86 rout of the Los Angeles Lakers in Game 2 of the National Basketball Association Finals was in sharp contrast to Game 1 on Sunday.

...

Pippen shot better tonight (8 for 16) and scored 20 points. More important, he limited Magic Johnson to 4-for-13 shooting from the field and 14 points over all.

Pippen, who was matched against James Worthy at the start of the game, switched to Johnson with 4 minutes 5 seconds remaining in the first quarter after Jordan had picked up his second foul.

[COLOR="Red"]"Pippen did a great job on me," Johnson said. "Once Michael got into early foul trouble, you had to expect they would make that switch.

"They were trying wear me out or take the ball out of my hands, take your pick. Scottie is more physical than Michael so the matchup was a little different." Full-Court Pressure
[/COLOR]
Pippen said, "I was trying to defend Magic full court so he could not pick apart of our offense.

"I had success against Magic tonight," said Pippen, "but whether I continue to play him is up to the coaching staff."

-ny times, 6/6/91

'91 lakers
reg. season: 106.3 ppg (13th in nba); 112.1 ortg (5th in nba)
finals: 91.6 ppg ([COLOR="Red"]-14.7 ppg[/COLOR]); 104.5 ortg

On Defense, Pippen Pulls Out All the Stops

HICAGO, June 8 — Most basketball players consider playing defense barely more than a necessary evil, something to be done so the fun part of the game — shooting three-pointers, dunking and throwing no-look passes — can be resumed.

Then there's Chicago Bulls forward Scottie Pippen, who can do all that as well as anyone. [COLOR="Red"]But his passion and talent for shutting down opponents has, so far during these NBA playoffs, turned him into the defensive equivalent of his more offensive-minded teammate, Michael Jordan[/COLOR].

The Bulls' other forward, Dennis Rodman, has that same fervor for defense, but the important difference between the two is that Pippen doesn't care if anyone notices him. Rodman craves such attention, which was the Bulls' explanation for Rodman's failing to attend today's workout, which will result in fines by the NBA and the team.

[COLOR="Red"]"Scottie sets the tempo defensively," Jordan said. "The more active he is, the better we are. His confidence is just as strong as mine, his competitiveness is just as strong as mine. It's like playing with a twin brother.[/COLOR] . . . Dennis is going to do whatever he can to gain attention; we understand that. With Dennis comes a lot of baggage, and this is some of the baggage you have to accept."

There was a time, though, when Pippen's commitment to the team was suspect as well, but his willingness to take on whatever defensive task the Bulls have assigned him and excelling at it have put that behind him. His defense helped the Bulls rout the Jazz, 96-54, Sunday night to take a two-games-to-one lead in the NBA Finals.

...

In the meantime he is leaving nothing to chance. His focus on stopping the Jazz is so intense that during a second-quarter timeout Sunday he crouched and stuck a forearm in the side of startled teammate Scott Burrell. Pippen was illustrating the proper defensive stance for guarding Jazz small forward Bryon Russell, Burrell having just been whistled for fouling Russell.

What Burrell received would be akin to a painter hearing from Picasso how to hold a brush or Miles Davis showing a trumpet player how to turn a grace note. And it is clear now why Jordan doesn't want to play without Pippen and why Coach Phil Jackson and Jordan fought the Bulls' management whenever trade rumors involving Pippen surfaced.

[COLOR="Red"]"Scottie has been the key to this team the last two, three years," Jackson said. "There's been a lot of insistence from Michael and myself that this guy is too invaluable for you to get rid of him. I don't know if there's a better defensive player."[/COLOR]

...

Bulls practices are still of importance at this time of year because they're constantly adjusting their defensive schemes, depending upon what they learn from game to game about their opponent. And while Rodman has taken credit for keeping Malone in check, [COLOR="Red"]the Jazz say it has been Pippen's versatility — guarding everyone from Malone to center Greg Ostertag to point guard John Stockton — that has created the greatest problems[/COLOR]. So much so that the Jazz complained Pippen was breaking the illegal-defense rules.

"Scottie is floating — you can use whatever term you want to use for it," said Stockton. "If he's going to come off his man, he needs to come all the way to double-team or it's illegal defense, but we didn't give him a chance to do that. You put a guy like Scottie Pippen, with his understanding of how to play defense, and you let him [do that], he's going to affect the game. And he certainly did."
-washington post, 6/8/98

tearing down teammates to prop up a guy is the lowest form of basketball fandom. it's what the weak ass lestans do. jordan doesn't need people diminishing pippen to prop up his greatness.

[TheCorporation]

Can Kyrie lead the Cavs to 55 wins without LeBron?
Can Pippen lead the Bulls to 55 wins without Jordan?

Please respond.

[3ball]

they needed great defense because they were playing teams that had great offensive players and systems.



'91 lakers
reg. season: 106.3 ppg (13th in nba); 112.1 ortg (5th in nba)
finals: 91.6 ppg ([COLOR="Red"]-14.7 ppg[/COLOR]); 104.5 ortg




tearing down teammates to prop up a guy is the lowest form of basketball fandom. it's what the weak ass lestans do. jordan doesn't need people diminishing pippen to prop up his greatness.

Lol at posting politically-correct media quotes - do you think Phil or MJ would ever say "yeah, pippen's 15 ppg on 34% was worst-ever".. of course not.. but it was..

and his horrific offense in most big series necessitated better defense from the bulls then they would otherwise need - it's statistical fact

He's BY FAR the worst offensive 2nd option of any dynasty, and the majority of champions

[Dray n Klay]

Lol at posting politically-correct media quotes - do you think Phil or MJ would ever say "yeah, pippen's 15 ppg on 34% was worst-ever".. of course not.. but it was..

and his horrific offense in most big series necessitated better defense from the bulls then they would otherwise need - it's statistical fact

He's BY FAR the worst offensive 2nd option of any dynasty, and the majority of champions

Was Kyrie an all-star in 2016? No


Was Pippen an all star in 1990 and 1995? Yes


How did LeBron win with Kyrie and Jordan lose with Pippen those years?

[superduper]

Was Kyrie an all-star in 2016? No


Was Pippen an all star in 1990 and 1995? Yes


How did LeBron win with Kyrie and Jordan lose with Pippen those years?

Why couldn't LeGOAT win in 2015 with no allstars?

I don't believe I've gotten a response from you yet for this question. I've asked you many times, please respond