96-98 MJ vs 08-10 Kobe

[superduper]

I have always said this is a very even comparison. Jordan however was not at his best (GOAT) level during the second threepeat.

Neither was Kobe

[Mr Feeny]

Kobe had more help on offense but MJ had more help on defense. 08 Celtics beat the 98 Bulls for sure.

Jesus. Sure they do. The same 2008 Celtics who were taken to 7 games by a joke Atlanta team in the 1st round and the same team that was taken to the final minute of a game 7 by LeBron James and 4 traffic cones. No they wouldn't. They wouldn't have a shot.

[Mr Feeny]

Neither was Kobe

He was. Or very close to it. Jordan was 33-35 and nowhere near his prime, however.

[3ball]

Kobe had more help on offense but MJ had more help on defense. 08 Celtics beat the 98 Bulls for sure.

MJ was the much better defender, so he needed less defensive help than kobe, not more

Kobe had rim protectors and shot-blockers Bynum/Gasol, whereas MJ didn't have rim protection

the "greater defensive help" was Jordan...

And Artest = 35-year old, 4/8 rodman... who didn't start in 98 PO

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

And this ... cause kuniva is basically always right:

Waddup bro.

He was. Or very close to it. Jordan was 33-35 and nowhere near his prime, however.

Not in 2009 and 2010, Kobe was.

His peak years were 06-08. Some would even argue 2003.

The fact many of you think there's some tier-like gap between 96-98 MJ and 08-10 Kobe...is crazy.

This isn't Jordan from 88-93. More like the back end of his prime.

[3ball]

[COLOR="Red"]PERCENTAGE OF TEAM POINTS SCORED WHILE PLAYER WAS ON FLOOR[/COLOR]


[COLOR="White"].........................[/COLOR]RS[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR]RS 4th[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR] PO[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]PO 4th[COLOR="White"]....[/COLOR]Finals[COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR] Finals 4th


JORDAN 1997... 36.0..... 40.1..... 37.7..... 46.3...... 40.9...... 50.4 [COLOR="DarkGreen"]<--- links to nba.com data[/COLOR]
JORDAN 1998... 36.3..... 42.1..... 39.7..... 48.8...... 43.6...... 49.1

KOBE 2008....... 31.8..... 36.8..... 33.9..... 41.5...... 30.4...... 32.1
KOBE 2009....... 32.6..... 40.5..... 34.3..... 35.8...... 36.2...... 34.4
KOBE 2010....... 32.2..... 37.8..... 33.9..... 38.4...... 36.8...... 37.6



^^^^Look at that 4th quarter gap in load/burden...
.

[3ball]

Waddup bro.



Not in 2009 and 2010, Kobe was.

His peak years were 06-08. Some would even argue 2003.

The fact many of you think [COLOR="Navy"]there's some tier-like gap[/COLOR] between 96-98 MJ and 08-10 Kobe...is crazy
This isn't Jordan from 88-93. More like the back end of his prime.

Per 100 Possessions Playoffs


MJ 96-98':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 42.5 pts.. 2.5 oreb.. 5.6 dreb.. 5.6 ast.. 3.2 tov.. 118 ortg.. 54.3 ts..
KB 08-10':[COLOR="White"].l[/COLOR] 38.6 pts.. 1.2 oreb.. 6.1 dreb.. 7.1 ast.. 4.0 tov.. 115 ortg.. 54.9 ts..


Advanced Playoffs

MJ 96-98':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 27.3 PER.. 9.5 ows.. 4.0 dws.. 0 268 ws/48.. 7.3 obpm... 0.3 dbpm.. 7.3 bpm.. 5.9 VORP.. 102 drtg
KB 08-10':[COLOR="White"].[/COLOR] 23.8 PER.. 4.7 ows.. 1.1 dws.. 0 158 ws/48.. 4.6 obpm.. -0.2 dbpm.. 4.4 bpm.. 2.8 VORP.. 107 drg


Now consider the scoring burden stats from NBA.com in the previous post above, where MJ's burden was far greater (50% more in Finals 4th quarters)

Jordan simply had less help offensively, yet his teams had the #6 and 16 all-time offenses, versus Kobe's #43 and 49 offenses.. and defensively it's no contest - 08'-10 Kobe wasn't a great defender..

Given this information, there's clearly a tier-like gap between 96-98 MJ and 08-10' Kobe..

Btw, 08-10 wasn't Kobe's prime.... The defensive bpm shows that only 01-03' Kobe approached 97-98' MJ on the defensive end.. (and no version of Kobe could touch 96' MJ defensively, or pre-96).

[ClipperRevival]

Another thing to consider is the fact that the 1995-96 Bulls broke the then record of 69 wins in a season. That record stood for 25 years (1971-72 Lakers). But even more impressive is the fact that the 1996-97 Bulls won 69 games the very next season, MATCHING the old record.

That would be akin to a team today winning 74 or more games in one season and winning 73 games the very next season. Relative to era, that's exactly what MJ did.

Also, there is the gap in championships, MVP, FMVP, etc. MJ has Kobe in pretty much every conceivable way.

[ClipperRevival]

Waddup bro.



Not in 2009 and 2010, Kobe was.

His peak years were 06-08. Some would even argue 2003.

The fact many of you think there's some tier-like gap between 96-98 MJ and 08-10 Kobe...is crazy.

This isn't Jordan from 88-93. More like the back end of his prime.

I saw Kobe's entire career. And I just kind of laugh when people say he was anything near his best anything prior to 2007. As a singular talent? Sure, probably around 2005-2007. That's when he had most of his crazy scoring explosions.

But as "the man" on a championship team? Making teammates better and knowing when to get teammates involved and when to take over offensively? Finding that perfect balance? In that regard, Kobe was at his absolute best in 2008-09. And the playoff stats back it up. He peaked there as "the man".

2005-2007 Kobe did NOT make teammates better. He didn't want too. He just tried to get his.

[AngelEyes]

I saw Kobe's entire career. And I just kind of laugh when people say he was anything near his best anything prior to 2007. As a singular talent? Sure, probably around 2005-2007. That's when he had most of his crazy scoring explosions.

But as "the man" on a championship team? Making teammates better and knowing when to get teammates involved and when to take over offensively? Finding that perfect balance? In that regard, Kobe was at his absolute best in 2008-09. And the playoff stats back it up. He peaked there as "the man".

2005-2007 Kobe did NOT make teammates better. He didn't want too. He just tried to get his.

I think you're right. Kobe's overall play peaked in 2009, when he put his entire game together. . . shooting, post game, passing, etc. In 2003 I believe he was at his athletic peak, he never looked more explosive than he did that season. In 2006 you can make a compelling argument that he peaked as a scorer.

[diamenz]

Cant really compare considering MJ was coming off a 2 and a half year voluntary layoff to get well rested mentally and physically.

we get it. we heard u the first thousand times.