Agree or disagree: CP3 was the most complete PG ever.

[tamaraw08]

I didn't say highest peak or best career or anything else. I said most "complete". I look at his game and I can't think of one legit weakness. Only one I can think of was his height but he had no control over that. Maybe his lack of "clutch" at times but that's not really a breakdown of his basketball game.

Thoughts?

I have been hoping for this guy to succeed to shut up his detractors for the last 3 years now. I was very happy when his Clips eliminated GSW, beat the Spurs etc but what bothers is tendency to get injured and/or get tired in the playoffs.
The Houston debacle a couple of years back esp when they got clobbered in game 7 was inexcusable IMO.
They say the best ability in AVailABILITY.

[Kool Boy]

Tyreke has a trash J and can only finish with one hand. If opponents read the scouting report he gets shut down. Has he ever even played in the playoffs?

Don't put him in the same sentence as CP3.


Tyreke's stats in the playoffs (where teams actually give a damn):

4 games, 31 mpg
10ppg, 5apg, 5rpg
33% shooting
18% 3p shooting

ugly

Fantastic athlete with a great handle, and no polish to any other part of his game. He's essentially a 16 year old LeBron.

much stronger and better body than 16 year LeBron. He more like a 6'6'' version of current LeBron.

[jayfan]

For one....you said:



There are thousands of miles between "Considered great" and "Pushed into the argument for GOAT at their position". George Gervin is an all time great. Nobody is saying hes better than Jordan.

Second....

The list of people to make an honest argument that Paul is greater than Magic is...if not literally nonexistent....effectively non existent.

Third....

Chris Paul is like a 10 time all star, 8 time all NBA, 8 time all D team, 5 time steals leader, 4-5 time assist leader and an MVP runner up. A resume that totally laps those of several people in the hall of fame. So the accomplishments you speak on him lacking must mean playoff winning. Which hes hardly come up short on even by great player standards.

Oscar Robertson won 2 playoff series in his career as a teams best player.

Pistol Pete never won one and never even made an NCAA tournament.

Dave Bing and Bob Lanier played together and didnt do shit till each left for teams that were contenders without them.

The list of guys who breezed into the hall of fame and were and are considered great....who won no more than Paul? Its long and noteworthy. Especially if you dont count the Mitch Richmond style end of career technically won but didnt play a key role success. Speaking of which....Mitch Richmond won what exactly?

Chris Paul is pretty much a run of the mill normal hall of famer far as career success....but he has the accolades to make the HOF two times over and hes still in or near his prime.

Better players than Chris Paul didnt have any more success as a teams best player. Now....you open it up to sidekicks and just on the roster guys? Ok.

But I dont think you are talking about Bob Mcadoo on the Lakers here.

As a teams key player?

Paul is on a pretty normal HOF rate of winning. Better than that really.

People assume a lot of great players won a lot more than they did.

When I said great, I meant an all-time great. And of course, not even the most ardant CP3 stans would honestly argue that he's above Magic.

How about this, I'll give you tangible parameters....

No player in the conversation for top 5-oat at their position has accomplished less than Chris Paul.


* Oscar's a good try, but he has a ring (in his 11th season. Paul is entering his 12th), a second finals appearance, and 2 final four appearances. Even individually, he eclipses Paul in every individual accolade/category minus all defensive team. He also has a league mvp and 2 or 3 college poy's.

.

[bizil]

When u combine scoring, passing, and defense as a package, CP3, Payton, and Frazier are the top three of all time. I think u could argue any of them as the most complete of all time. Payton and Frazier were more versatile defensively and could defend PG, SG, and even some SF's. BUT CP's handles and passing ability were superior.

So when u factor fundamental skill level on top of the scoring-passing-defense package, then YES CP3 is the most complete PG ever. If u throw versatility on top of the scoring-passing-defense package then Payton or Frazier is the most complete PG ever.

[ralph_i_el]

much stronger and better body than 16 year LeBron. He more like a 6'6'' version of current LeBron.

18 year old LeBron had 20lbs on CURRENT Tyreke Evans....and was probably as good of a shooter.

Tyreke Evans has way worse BBiQ than LeBron. LeBron is as good a finisher with his left hand than Tyreke is with his right.


Tyreke is a very average player who does not belong in this conversation at all. He had a great rookie year as the lead guard on a bad team, because teams didn't really prepare for the bum-ass Kings. Once teams found out he couldn't shoot and had no left hand he was a role player.

Tyreke Evans is a decent point-forward. He can dribble and pass, and is an excellent athlete. His game is severely limited. Teams know that he always wants to get to the rim, and he still rarely goes left.


Look at how much trouble Wall has scoring (In a set-up offense). Wall has an excellent left hand, and a better J than Tyreke. That tells you what you need to know about Tyreke.

[Young X]

Every young, aspiring point guard should study Chris Paul.

Start with his game 1 against the Lakers in 2011 and go from there.

Look at how under control he plays, how patient he is, how he uses his teammates, how he tricks/manipulates defenders. It gets no better.

Look at this game for example against the Bulls:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mipe7xKxPss

Passing, ballhandling, shooting, slashing, steals. It's all there.

[meat]

When u combine scoring, passing, and defense as a package, CP3, Payton, and Frazier are the top three of all time. I think u could argue any of them as the most complete of all time. Payton and Frazier were more versatile defensively and could defend PG, SG, and even some SF's. BUT CP's handles and passing ability were superior.

So when u factor fundamental skill level on top of the scoring-passing-defense package, then YES CP3 is the most complete PG ever. If u throw versatility on top of the scoring-passing-defense package then Payton or Frazier is the most complete PG ever.

Magic being one of the best PGs ever, then filling in for Kareem and going 42-15-7 in the playoffs. That's versatility.

[Nick Young]

Did someone just say Tony Parker > CP3? At making music videos maybe but not at basketball. Nice try.

How many rings and finals appearances does Tony Parker have?
How many finals MVPs does Parker have?

Ask yourself those same questions about CP3.


When Tony Parker gained a solid consistent midrange jump shot, he became one of the most unguardable PGs of all time.


No one can argue with his record and his accomplishments.

One point guard has one of highest winning percentages of the past 20 years and is one of the leaders in rings won among current active NBA players.

The other point guard is Chris Paul.

[Kool Boy]

18 year old LeBron had 20lbs on CURRENT Tyreke Evans....and was probably as good of a shooter.

Tyreke Evans has way worse BBiQ than LeBron. LeBron is as good a finisher with his left hand than Tyreke is with his right.


Tyreke is a very average player who does not belong in this conversation at all. He had a great rookie year as the lead guard on a bad team, because teams didn't really prepare for the bum-ass Kings. Once teams found out he couldn't shoot and had no left hand he was a role player.

Tyreke Evans is a decent point-forward. He can dribble and pass, and is an excellent athlete. His game is severely limited. Teams know that he always wants to get to the rim, and he still rarely goes left.


Look at how much trouble Wall has scoring (In a set-up offense). Wall has an excellent left hand, and a better J than Tyreke. That tells you what you need to know about Tyreke.

you obviously don't keep up with Tyreke. He is listed as 220 but he's 235-240. He's 2 inches shorter than LeBron so he has more girth per pound. Also, I've watched Tyreke since he was in high school and his left hand is very good (just shows how people assume things about him without watching). Also Tyreke shot 38% from three last year, he's a better shooter than Wall.

[bizil]

Magic being one of the best PGs ever, then filling in for Kareem and going 42-15-7 in the playoffs. That's versatility.

I was talking about PG's who combine scoring, passing, and defense THE BEST!! Paul, Frazier, and Payton are the top 3 of all time in that regard. I was commenting on Frazier and Payton BEING MORE VERSATILE on defense than CP3 because of size.

In terms of positional versatility and stuffing a stat sheet, Magic IS the most versatile PG of all time. And in general Magic is the best PG of all time. But I WASN'T talking about that. I was talking about guys who combine scoring, passing, and defense the best. Magic DOESN'T fit in that equation!

[Smoke117]

Stockton had a lot of steals but was not a great defender. Peak Tony Parker is (was) a better defender than peak Stockton.

CP3 is overrated. I have watched him choke away important playoff games for his entire career. He has been surrounded by talent on the Clippers and consistently underperforms in the biggest games.


Tony Parker>CP3

That's right. I said it.

This is the kind of stupid shit that makes everyone think you're a moron.

[jayfan]

This is the kind of stupid shit that makes everyone think you're a moron.

The only thing in bold that's moronic is the Tony Parker comparison. The 3 sentences before it are legitimate.

.

[Smoke117]

The only thing in bold that's moronic is the Tony Parker comparison. The 3 sentences before it are legitimate.

.

Only someone who never actually watched John Stockton, but in highlight and youtube videos would say Tony Parker was a better defensive player. Calling Tony Parker the most complete pg ever is just plain laughable.

[AirBonner]

Steve Nash was better.

[j3lademaster]

Well, his "lack of height" never prevented him from being an effective defender and good rebounder for his position, so I'm going to have to agree with you. He does everything at least well and is elite at the most important facet of the position- playmaking and leadership.