Lebron haters' arguments just look silly now that he pulled off the GOAT Finals

[3ball]

1. Jordan never played against a more talented team in the Finals (Suns were beat up)

The team with the best regular season record and all the accolades FREQUENTLY loses in the higher-competition playoffs.

So regular season record is a very poor gauge of all-time greatness - it's like using college stats/record to say someone is a great NBA player.

The Warriors were 15-9 in the 2016 playoffs and almost lost to the isolation-king Thunder - many teams from previous eras would beat this Warrior team.

2. Jordan was NOT capable of doing what Lebron did defensively during that series.

The Cavs DRtg was only 108 in the 2016 Finals - that's very average, so Lebron's didn't do anything special defensively.

He got a few blocks, but that doesn't mean anything - for their careers, Jordan and Lebron average the same blocks, including many blocks at the rim against bigs.. Let me know if you want gifs - there are dozens of them.

You're forgetting that Jordan is the best defender EVER at his position - Lebron is nowhere near that, which is why he allowed 2 role players to go buck wild and win FMVP..

Durant also averaged 33 ppg on 55% in 2012 Finals, compared to Lebron's 29 ppg on 49% - so while Lebron let Durant go off and role players win FMVP, Jordan thoroughly dominated head-to-head matchups against Magic and Drexler...

[Ca$H]

Never forget 2011.

[IGOTGAME]

The Cavs DRtg was only 108 in the 2016 Finals - that's very average, so Lebron's didn't do anything special defensively.

He got a few blocks, but that doesn't mean anything - for their careers, Jordan and Lebron average the same blocks, including many blocks at the rim against bigs.. Let me know if you want gifs - there are dozens of them.

You're forgetting that Jordan is the best defender EVER at his position - Lebron is nowhere near that, which is why he allowed 2 role players to go buck wild and win FMVP..

Durant also averaged 33 ppg on 55% in 2012 Finals, compared to Lebron's 29 ppg on 49% - so while Lebron let Durant go off and role players win FMVP, Jordan thoroughly dominated head-to-head matchups against Magic and Drexler...

What Lebron did defensively in that series, few players in NBA history are capable of doing. Jordan (not versatile enough) is not one of them.

and what I'm talking about is not the blocks. It was the versatility. Guarding 1 through 5, actually shutting down 1-5 at any moment. Totally demoralizing the current MVP to the point he lashes out like a baby throwing a tantrum. All this while leading the series in all statistical categories and facilitating almost every possession. The workload was insane and it was GOAT level defense, the kind usually reserved only for dominant defenseive bigs at the absolute peak of their powers.

It's not like the Warriors were some average team, they were the returning champs coming off the greatest season ever. trying to use playoff record to demean them is silly because that Thunder team is better than any team the Bulls every faced in the Finals. If anything it just brings attention to how easy Jordan had it from 91-98 (he didn't face teams on that level)

[Hey Yo]

The team with the best regular season record and all the accolades FREQUENTLY loses in the higher-competition playoffs.

So regular season record is a very poor gauge of all-time greatness - it's like using college stats/record to say someone is a great NBA player.

The Warriors were 15-9 in the 2016 playoffs and almost lost to the isolation-king Thunder - many teams from previous eras would beat this Warrior team.



The Cavs DRtg was only 108 in the 2016 Finals - that's very average, so Lebron's didn't do anything special defensively.

He got a few blocks, but that doesn't mean anything - for their careers, Jordan and Lebron average the same blocks, including many blocks at the rim against bigs.. Let me know if you want gifs - there are dozens of them.

You're forgetting that Jordan is the best defender EVER at his position - Lebron is nowhere near that, which is why he allowed 2 role players to go buck wild and win FMVP..

Durant also averaged 33 ppg on 55% in 2012 Finals, compared to Lebron's 29 ppg on 49% - so while Lebron let Durant go off and role players win FMVP, Jordan thoroughly dominated head-to-head matchups against Magic and Drexler...

"It's tough to guard Magic and then go down and be expected to carry the load offensively," Jordan said following the series opener. "It's a challenge, but I have to do it."

"However, things changed in Game 2 when the Bulls discovered a new defensive stopper. Pippen switched over onto Johnson after Jordan picked up his second personal foul in the first quarter and did an outstanding job on the Lakers' star, pestering him into 4-for-13 shooting."

[tpols]

The team with the best regular season record and all the accolades FREQUENTLY loses in the higher-competition playoffs.

So regular season record is a very poor gauge of all-time greatness - it's like using college stats/record to say someone is a great NBA player.

The Warriors were 15-9 in the 2016 playoffs and almost lost to the isolation-king Thunder - many teams from previous eras would beat this Warrior team.



The Cavs DRtg was only 108 in the 2016 Finals - that's very average, so Lebron's didn't do anything special defensively.

He got a few blocks, but that doesn't mean anything - for their careers, Jordan and Lebron average the same blocks, including many blocks at the rim against bigs.. Let me know if you want gifs - there are dozens of them.

You're forgetting that Jordan is the best defender EVER at his position - Lebron is nowhere near that, which is why he allowed 2 role players to go buck wild and win FMVP..

Durant also averaged 33 ppg on 55% in 2012 Finals, compared to Lebron's 29 ppg on 49% - so while Lebron let Durant go off and role players win FMVP, Jordan thoroughly dominated head-to-head matchups against Magic and Drexler...

3ball you're a little off on this one .. while the cavs defense was only slightly above average overall, Lebron posted a 99 drtg i believe.. so yea, while his offensive performances are really overrated in my book due to the bulk of golden state's defense being taken out, his defense was not.. he dominated that end of the floor.

[Hey Yo]

What Lebron did defensively in that series, few players in NBA history are capable of doing. Jordan (not versatile enough) is not one of them.

and what I'm talking about is not the blocks. It was the versatility. Guarding 1 through 5, actually shutting down 1-5 at any moment. Totally demoralizing the current MVP to the point he lashes out like a baby throwing a tantrum. All this while leading the series in all statistical categories and facilitating almost every possession. The workload was insane and it was GOAT level defense, the kind usually reserved only for dominant defenseive bigs at the absolute peak of their powers.

It's not like the Warriors were some average team, they were the returning champs coming off the greatest season ever. trying to use playoff record to demean them is silly because that Thunder team is better than any team the Bulls every faced in the Finals. If anything it just brings attention to how easy Jordan had it from 91-98 (he didn't face teams on that level)

Add in the fact that this was James' 6th straight Finals appearance and 5th straight postseason leading his team in every series in MP, points, rebounds and assists.

That's a lot of miles....

[3ball]

Lebron totally demoralized the current MVP to the point he lashes out like a baby throwing a tantrum.

Jordan would block Curry the same way - LOL at thinking a block on Curry deserves props.

All this while leading the series in all statistical categories and facilitating almost every possession. The workload was insane

Jordan's 6 point advantage takes more energy than Lebron's 4 defensive rebounds - you forgot that Jordan averaged 36/7/8 in 91-93 Finals with half the turnovers of Lebron's 30/11/9.

Jordan's scoring advantage was particularly taxing because he faced greater defensive attention - he scored 15 ppg more than his 2nd option, compared to only 1 ppg for Lebron.

It's not like the Warriors were some average team, they were the returning champs coming off the greatest season ever.

The Warriors won last year because Lebron was missing his 2nd and 3rd options, both of which were perennial all-stars.

This year, reality set in that they aren't a great playoff team.

They're a soft team and their gimmick 3-point style was shut down by the Thunder and Cavs - many teams in prior eras would do the same, especially since they were more physical than today's teams.

few players in NBA history are capable of doing what lebron did defensively. Jordan (not versatile enough) is not one of them.

Jordan guarded Magic, Divac and Worthy in 1991 Finals - how is that different from the players that Lebron guarded?

Infact - Magic, Worthy and Divac were all skilled big men, whereas Lebron performed spot-duty on play-finishing bigs that had no offensive responsibility or skill.

[IGOTGAME]

Jordan would block Curry the same way - LOL at thinking a block on Curry deserves props.

I've never mentioned those blocks. Lebron's highlight must be etched into your mind. I'm talking about totally taking this guy out of the game on ball and off ball. his versatility is what allowed them to do that.

Jordan's 6 point advantage takes more energy than Lebron's 4 defensive rebounds - you forgot that Jordan averaged 36/7/8 in 91-93 Finals with half the turnovers of Lebron's 30/11/9.

I haven't forgotten anything. But Jordan was facing worst team then this GSW team, especially worst defenses. On top of that Jordan didn't facilitate as much as Lebron or was asked to consistently anchor that defense from all angles.

Another note, why lump all those series together? it doesn't make sense.

Jordan guarded Magic, Divac and Worthy in 1991 Finals - how is that different from the players that Lebron guarded?

you've offically jumped the shark. you can't actually believe that.

[Mr Feeny]

For what it's worth, this was Lebron's defense in the 2016 finals. The best defensive performance in the last 2 decades and on the shortlist of the best in nba history:


LeBron's defenae in the 2016 finals:

Overall: 31.6 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 47.9%, -16.3%
Threes: 29.0 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 39.6%, -10.6%
Twos: 33.3 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 53.6%, -20.3%
<6ft: 38.5 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 63.6%, -25.1%


Just staggering.

[IGOTGAME]

For what it's worth, this was Lebron's defense in the 2016 finals. The best defensive performance in the last 2 decades and on the shortlist of the best in nba history:


LeBron's defenae in the 2016 finals:

Overall: 31.6 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 47.9%, -16.3%
Threes: 29.0 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 39.6%, -10.6%
Twos: 33.3 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 53.6%, -20.3%
<6ft: 38.5 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 63.6%, -25.1%


Just staggering.

The only one i can think of that comes close was Duncan against New Jersey in 2003, but NJ wasn't a powerhouse like GSW.

[Ben Simmons]

For what it's worth, this was Lebron's defense in the 2016 finals. The best defensive performance in the last 2 decades and on the shortlist of the best in nba history:


LeBron's defenae in the 2016 finals:

Overall: 31.6 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 47.9%, -16.3%
Threes: 29.0 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 39.6%, -10.6%
Twos: 33.3 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 53.6%, -20.3%
<6ft: 38.5 DFG%, opponents usually shoot 63.6%, -25.1%


Just staggering.

Staggering .

And to think this GSW team was posting all time offensive numbers.

[Mr Feeny]

The only one i can think of that comes close was Duncan against New Jersey in 2003, but NJ wasn't a powerhouse like GSW.

Sorry, my bad. Duncan's actually was higher. I forgot about that. That was significantly better than even Lebron's, if you can grasp that.
I forgot about it. I think Duncan had a 5 or 6 DPM. His numbers were cartoon-like.

[Suguru101]

The team with the best regular season record and all the accolades FREQUENTLY loses in the higher-competition playoffs.

So regular season record is a very poor gauge of all-time greatness - it's like using college stats/record to say someone is a great NBA player.

The Warriors were 15-9 in the 2016 playoffs and almost lost to the isolation-king Thunder - many teams from previous eras would beat this Warrior team.



The Cavs DRtg was only 108 in the 2016 Finals - that's very average, so Lebron's didn't do anything special defensively.

He got a few blocks, but that doesn't mean anything - for their careers, Jordan and Lebron average the same blocks, including many blocks at the rim against bigs.. Let me know if you want gifs - there are dozens of them.

You're forgetting that Jordan is the best defender EVER at his position - Lebron is nowhere near that, which is why he allowed 2 role players to go buck wild and win FMVP..

Durant also averaged 33 ppg on 55% in 2012 Finals, compared to Lebron's 29 ppg on 49% - so while Lebron let Durant go off and role players win FMVP, Jordan thoroughly dominated head-to-head matchups against Magic and Drexler...

Durant averaged 30.6, 6 rebounds and 2.2 assists.

LeBron averaged 28.6, 10.2 rebounds and 7.4 assists.

His overall game impact and his defense thoroughly trounced Durant on the Finals. You only focus on scoring though because that's the only area Jordan has on LeBron (and just because of volume of shots and archaic non-hedging/zone defenses).

At least use the correct stats, dude.

[Hey Yo]

Durant averaged 30.6, 6 rebounds and 2.2 assists.

LeBron averaged 28.6, 10.2 rebounds and 7.4 assists.

His overall game impact and his defense thoroughly trounced Durant on the Finals. You only focus on scoring though because that's the only area Jordan has on LeBron (and just because of volume of shots and archaic non-hedging/zone defenses).

At least use the correct stats, dude.

Once AGAIN....goofball busted using fake stats to make James look worse.

[diamenz]

bron did great, but it doesn't erase his past.