Bigger Finals Choke: 2004 Kobe or 2016 Curry?

[CTbasketball92]

Curry may still have surgery

Curry has also withdrawn from the Olympic USA team due to the knee injury

Now that Curry has the entire off season for recovery, it is quite possible Curry's doctors could elect for a recovery plan that does not involve invasive surgery

He had a grade 1 MCL sprain that usually takes anywhere from 1-3 weeks to recover from. That doesn't take into consideration that Curry was undoubtedly given the best treatment that money can buy. Curry looked mostly fine coming back, and after OKC, I thought he'd get a pretty efficient 26 ppg against the Cavs. I was wrong. Even last year, Curry relied waaayyyyy too much on his 3ball to always be effective. Curry is a great ballhandler, but he doesn't play downhill and he only dribbles to get off a long range jumper. When you play like someone who's "just a shooter," it's easier to be stopped.

[Doctor K]

This is not true.

Wrong. When the injury is severe enough that therapy and rest won't work, surgery is done. Curry's MCL injury was not severe. You yourself said all playoffs long it was so serious that he will get surgery, guess you were wrong.

[warriorfan]

He had a grade 1 MCL sprain that usually takes anywhere from 1-3 weeks to recover from. That doesn't take into consideration that Curry was undoubtedly given the best treatment that money can buy.

For a Grade 1 MCL Sprain, a 2-4 Week recovery time is a timetable for the average length of time to be cleared for everyday casual activity, at most walking up a flight of stairs. Not physically demanding and strenuous activity such as a professional basketball game.

Curry looked mostly fine coming back,

Well we are in agreement that he was not 100%, that is a start

Even last year, Curry relied waaayyyyy too much on his 3ball to always be effective. Curry is a great ballhandler, but he doesn't play downhill and he only dribbles to get off a long range jumper. When you play like someone who's "just a shooter," it's easier to be stopped.

You must not watch a lot of Golden State games.

Curry does not rely too much on his 3 point shot, and your assessment that he only dribbles to get off a long range jumper couldn't be further from the truth. You just exposed yourself who watches ESPN highlights where they show Curry's stepback 3's.


Over half of Curry's shots are below the 3 point line









You are currently batting 1000 for things that you have posted that ended up being wrong

Impressive

[Mr Feeny]

The answer to this is 2004 Kobe. I do admit that relative to my expectations for each player, 2011 LeBron was worse than either one, but I don't think Curry was 100% in these Finals from a physical standpoint. Still, 1 semi MVP-level game out of 7 tries was bad, no way around that.

Kobe literally... was just AWFUL. His numbers were brutal and his actual play somehow was even worse than that. I have a high level of respect for those Piston teams, but it was one of the worst performances I've ever seen. I'm not sure I'd call it a "choke" necessarily; there were a lot of factors at play with that Lakers team. Not every bad performance on the big stage is automatically a result of the pressure.

I think Curry might have "choked" a bit more than Kobe mentally, but maybe I only feel that way because unlike the Brick Mamba, I hold Curry to a higher standard of on-court decision making and those kinds of things. So to see him make plays down the stretch like ill-advised behind the back feeds with no upside, or not taking the ball inside against Kevin Love and creating offense that way... it was surprising.

I'd been saying all season that if push comes to shove, Steph will tone down the flashy/sloppy BS, that it wasn't truly a major concern for him. And then he allowed it to pretty much be the final difference between winning and losing. All 3 were pathetic performances.

WHAT a post!

agree fully. Kobe is awful when the stakes are high

[tpols]

The answer to this is 2004 Kobe. I do admit that relative to my expectations for each player, 2011 LeBron was worse than either one, but I don't think Curry was 100% in these Finals from a physical standpoint. Still, 1 semi MVP-level game out of 7 tries was bad, no way around that.

Kobe literally... was just AWFUL. His numbers were brutal and his actual play somehow was even worse than that. I have a high level of respect for those Piston teams, but it was one of the worst performances I've ever seen. I'm not sure I'd call it a "choke" necessarily; there were a lot of factors at play with that Lakers team. Not every bad performance on the big stage is automatically a result of the pressure.

I think Curry might have "choked" a bit more than Kobe mentally, but maybe I only feel that way because unlike the Brick Mamba, I hold Curry to a higher standard of on-court decision making and those kinds of things. So to see him make plays down the stretch like ill-advised behind the back feeds with no upside, or not taking the ball inside against Kevin Love and creating offense that way... it was surprising.

I'd been saying all season that if push comes to shove, Steph will tone down the flashy/sloppy BS, that it wasn't truly a major concern for him. And then he allowed it to pretty much be the final difference between winning and losing. All 3 were pathetic performances.

good post..

a lotta truth here. i agree with you assessments on the "choke" vs "played horrible", and to expand on that a little, Kobe in 2004 was facing the GOAT defense coached by GOAT defensive mind Larry Brown .. so yea he ended up having bad numbers and a bad series.. everyone besides shaq that faced Detroit met that fate..

But in Curry's case, he just couldnt ever get the splash effect going.. a lot of in and outs, a lot of good looks, but they just werent dropping. Same with Klay. I really think it was a big case of "live by the 3, die by the 3" .. because Curry and Klay were hitting chains of circus shots in the WCFs under even more pressure coming back and always trailing, but the shots went in. Against Cleveland they just couldn't hit, and its impossible to will 3's in like a slasher can will layups. Not only are layups easier to finish and less luck involved, but you can draw fouls and collapse defense.. 3 pointers have a smaller margin for error.



An example of a true "choke" would be 2011 Lebron.. just inexplicable mental collapse.. with no logic for why it occured.

[Mr Feeny]

good post..

a lotta truth here. i agree with you assessments on the "choke" vs "played horrible", and to expand on that a little, Kobe in 2004 was facing the GOAT defense coached by GOAT defensive mind Larry Brown .. so yea he ended up having bad numbers and a bad series.. everyone besides shaq that faced Detroit met that fate..

But in Curry's case, he just couldnt ever get the splash effect going.. a lot of in and outs, a lot of good looks, but they just werent dropping. Same with Klay. I really think it was a big case of "live by the 3, die by the 3" .. because Curry and Klay were hitting chains of circus shots in the WCFs under even more pressure coming back and always trailing, but the shots went in. Against Cleveland they just couldn't hit, and its impossible to will 3's in like a slasher can will layups. Not only are layups easier to finish and less luck involved, but you can draw fouls and collapse defense.. 3 pointers have a smaller margin for error.




An example of a true "choke" would be 2011 Lebron.. just inexplicable mental collapse.. with no logic for why it occured.

So why did kobe continue to hog the ball instead of giving it to his master "Shaq the freak"?
Shaq was dominating Ben and scoring 26 ppg on 64%fg while Kobrick was busy building a house with those bricks to the tune of 38%

[warriorfan]

good post..

a lotta truth here. i agree with you assessments on the "choke" vs "played horrible", and to expand on that a little, Kobe in 2004 was facing the GOAT defense coached by GOAT defensive mind Larry Brown .. so yea he ended up having bad numbers and a bad series.. everyone besides shaq that faced Detroit met that fate.


An example of a true "choke" would be 2011 Lebron.. just inexplicable mental collapse.. with no logic for why it occured.

Good examination of the context surrounding Kobe's 2004 Finals. Detroit was a GOAT level defensive squad and Larry Brown had them locked in. Detroit only gave up 100 or more points one time during the 2004 playoffs, and it was because the game went to 3x OT

Detroit had talent, coaching, and was utilizing illegal defense to a serious extent. In fact the Detroit team forced the league to review it's rules concerning illegal defense in the following season of 2004-2005

[quote]2004-05

[Mr Feeny]

Agree with everyone that Mr 22 ppg shooter on 38% was a worse performance

[tpols]

So why did kobe continue to hog the ball instead of giving it to his master "Shaq the freak"?
Shaq was dominating Ben and scoring 26 ppg on 64%fg while Kobrick was busy building a house with those bricks to the tune of 38%

because he was being selfish, dummy.. a lot of idiots, much like yourself if you had been watching back then, disparaged him for his superstar contributions in previous years and he tried to do too much.



It wasnt a "choke" though.. 2011 Bran is in the dictionary as an example for that word, and its hilarious hearing you guys throw the term around because it will always boomerang right back at you lol

[Mr Feeny]

because he was being selfish, dummy.. a lot of idiots, much like yourself if you had been watching back then, disparaged him for his superstar contributions in previous years and he tried to do too much.



It wasnt a "choke" though.. 2011 Bran is in the dictionary as an example for that word, and its hilarious hearing you guys throw the term around because it will always boomerang right back at you lol

As long as you admit it was the worst performance by any superstar in finals history

LeBron averaging 17,7,8 on 47% while winning 2 games against the team that swept and embarassed kobrick 2 rounds earlier is choking for his standards? Maybe so bc he's a top 3 goat.

For Kobrick standards 47% is one of his all time performances

[Dragonyeuw]

Both were awful but Kobe was horrific. He singlehandedly lost them that title!

If Lebron played remotely close to the level he demonstrated throughout the ECF, the Heat win in 2011. Lebron's level of play dipped further relative to what he had demonstrated just the previous series against Chicago who were a tougher defensive team than the Mavs.

[jayfan]

I couldn't care less about Kobe or Curry. That said, it would have to be Curry.

Kobe went up against the best defense of our generation (maybe of any generation) in the 2004 Pistons, while Curry went up against.... the Cavs (average defense at best) and one of the worst defenders of our generation (maybe of any generation) in Kyrie.

The fact that Curry only shot 2 percentage points higher and had the same ppg* is underwhelming.




* Both players averaged 22.6 ppg. Not 22 and 23, as reported earlier in the thread.

.

[Ai2death]

Easily the first ever unanimous mvp plus a 63-9 team. We had those accomplishments chucked in our face and they followed it with an epic choke job. Kobe didn't even get the chance to choke a 3-1 lead

[Cali Syndicate]

Right, but in all cases of serious MCL injuries surgery is strongly recommended if not required over rest. And its what you were harping about all playoffs long was coming in the off-season. Still don't see any surgery how does it feel to be always wrong?


Guess this just wasn't serious...just the usual thing players play with. Or maybe it was nothing. Those are the only 2 options. The usual or nothing

When curry initially sprained his ankle back in the 2011 pre season against the Lakers, it wasn't anything too serious. problem was that he continued to play on it with little to rest, leading to more and more sprains. 7 total. His most likely minor sprain developed I to a surgery required fix. In hindsight, some rest following the initial sprain and we wouldn't even talk about curry's glass ankles.

And curry definitely sprained his mcl. Pretty sure the MRI showed some tear which was how they listed it as a grade 1 sprain. While he did get some rest, he sure didn't come back 100%. And even if curry reaggravated it , he was going to hide it. Dude wanted to play because he felt he could help win. Which he did and didn't. His inconsistencies and conditioning issues showed he was affected in one way or another by the injury.

Either way, he has had the summer to heal. And if you followed curry's career at all, he will bounce back and continue to get better.

[Hey Yo]

good post..

a lotta truth here. i agree with you assessments on the "choke" vs "played horrible", and to expand on that a little, Kobe in 2004 was facing the GOAT defense coached by GOAT defensive mind Larry Brown .. yea he ended up having bad numbers and a bad series.. everyone besides shaq that faced Detroit met that fate..

KoME deviating from the system, trying to win his 1st FMVP in 4 tries and totally un-coachable...... is the reason why.