ESPN Insider request: Will LeBron pass MJ for GOAT??

[Hey Yo]

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-10-...michael-jordan

Yeah, he got bored.

"Although Jordan is clearly serious about quitting basketball because he has nothing left to prove, one high-ranking official of the Bulls told The Times:

"In my heart, all I think Michael wants is a year to himself.

"Suppose he gets restless after a year, or just gets bored. How much golf can you play? Michael needs challenges in his life.

He's not sick like Magic Johnson or disabled like Larry Bird. He's just tired."

He got tired and quit on his team while under contract. Then did the same (minus under contract) once he came back.

3 straight Finals and you're tired?? LeBron played just under 47mins in game 7 and avg. 41.7mp in his 6th straight Finals.

Boredom is an excuse for..... "I'm tired"



Wasn't to tired to Baseball though, huh?

[ArbitraryWater]

Yo Hey Yo, hate to ask you directly, but dont you have Insider?

[Hey Yo]

I already posted that article once, don't really feel like doing it again cause the 4000 word limit per page makes it a pain in the ass.

Think I posted it on Saturday or Sunday for the 1st guy who asked for it.

[ArbitraryWater]

I already posted that article once, don't really feel like doing it again cause the 4000 word limit per page makes it a pain in the ass.

Think I posted it on Saturday or Sunday for the 1st guy who asked for it.

Nah this is a new one, you probably mean an older request from me I think.. this article is from yesterday. But I feel you on the word limit.

[Hey Yo]

Nah this is a new one, you probably mean an older request from me I think.. this article is from yesterday. But I feel you on the word limit.

"When ESPN's panel voted on the greatest NBA players of all time at midseason, LeBron James finished in third place, behind Michael Jordan and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar.

Now it's worth revisiting that list after James won his third Finals MVP in leading his Cleveland Cavaliers to the first comeback from a 3-1 series deficit in NBA Finals history, giving Cleveland its first major professional sports championship since 1954.

What will it take for James to be No. 1? And after this postseason, is he already in second place?

[B]James' r

[Hey Yo]

James' championships added

The goal is to win, and to give your team its best chance to win championships, and that's where James really has stood out.

By the championships added measure I introduced in January, James has put himself on the short list of the most valuable players in history.

Championships added uses Basketball-Reference.com's win shares to estimate how much a player helped his team's chances of winning the title each regular season and playoffs, also factoring in awards for a subjective component.

Because championships added emphasizes peak performance over compiling statistics with longevity, James looks great by this metric. When I ranked players in February, he came in third behind Jordan and Wilt Chamberlain.

Each additional season, including this one, gives James more opportunities. I estimate based on his win shares and All-NBA First Team selection that he added 0.115 championships during the regular season and another 0.24 during the playoffs -- in other words, this credits James for a quarter of a title based only on his playoff performance, and that might be conservative, given that he posted two of the three best Finals games since 1984 by the game score metric, both in potential elimination games.

There are three components to championships added, and James is moving up in all three: regular season, awards and postseason.

If we look at regular season only, James is fourth, moving ahead of Karl Malone:

Championships Added (Regular Season)

PLAYER CHAMPIONSHIPS ADDED
1. Wilt Chamberlain 3.04
2. Michael Jordan 2.19
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 2.15
4. LeBron James 1.89
5. Karl Malone 1.63

Based on his four MVP trophies and 10 appearances on the All-NBA First Team (plus two more Second Team nods), James is now second in estimated championships added based on awards:

Awards Championships Added
PLAYER CHAMPIONSHIPS ADDED
1. Michael Jordan 3.05
2. LeBron James 2.83
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 2.72
4. Larry Bird 2.26
5. Shaquille O'Neal 2.07

And then there's the playoffs. Adding 2016 puts James atop the list of postseason championships added:

Postseason Championships Added
PLAYER CHAMPIONSHIPS ADDED
1. LeBron James 1.78
2. Michael Jordan 1.67
3. Wilt Chamberlain 1.53
4. Bill Russell 1.52
5. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 1.34

If that seems preposterous, remember that James has now played in more Finals than Jordan. And while it didn't always translate into victories for his team, James' best Finals performances have rated better individually than Jordan's best.

cont.

[Hey Yo]

James also won his three championships in an era with 29 other competitors for the title, as compared to the relatively few teams Russell's Celtics had to beat out (as few as seven in some seasons, as many as 13 in another). Combining all three as I did for my rankings (the average of regular-season and playoff scores, added to the playoffs) brings James to 4.13 championships added in his career, decimal points ahead of Chamberlain and only a little behind Jordan.

Total Championships Added
PLAYER CHAMPIONSHIPS ADDED
1. Michael Jordan 4.29
2. LeBron James 4.13
3. Wilt Chamberlain 4.06
4. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 3.77
5. Bill Russell 2.91

There's still room for debate of the precise order of the top five. Chamberlain's score is still within the margin of error with James. If you favor contributions to winning over individual performance or believe win shares short-change him, Russell could be the pick for No. 2, and Abdul-Jabbar -- the leader by a wide margin in career win shares -- remains the choice of those who believe in longevity over peak performance.

But with another peak James postseason, at the very least this much can be said: There's nobody but Jordan who clearly ranks ahead of him in NBA history. And if and when we vote for all-time #NBArank again, James will be No. 2 on my ballot.

Can James become the GOAT?

Putting James second would leave only one more peak to conquer: Jordan himself, for the title of greatest of all time. From the perspective of championships added, Jordan is within sight. A couple of more seasons like James' standard would push him past Jordan for No. 1.

For some fans, that notion is unthinkable. For those observers, Jordan's perfect 6-0 record in the Finals, and the disappointing finish to James' 2010 and 2011 postseasons, rules out the possibility of a change at the top. But if we're looking for the player who has done the most to give his team the best chance, James is knocking on the door. And the discussion may shift quickly if James can surpass Jordan's career totals in years to come.

For most people, James probably needs at least another championship -- and maybe two more -- to get in the discussion with Jordan. Sunday's win gives him a more realistic path to getting there.

[ArbitraryWater]

Thanks man

looks like a for sure better read than the two weeks old one about his finals record

saved

[Straight_Ballin]

Wait....is ClipperRevival = Straight_Ballin?

What is up with this guy accusing everyone of being my alt? At one point you guys who had teams pissed on by MJ were accusing me of being Jeff.

[ClipperRevival]

Thanks for posting.

But what a terrible article. Putting together a few advanced metrics to measure GOATness? I was hoping for a little more but this is ESPN.

[ArbitraryWater]

Thanks for posting.

But what a terrible article. Putting together a few advanced metrics to measure GOATness? I was hoping for a little more but this is ESPN.

its a good read but its still too much hardcore stat weighted... which is what Pelton does. There are much finer, understandable stats to make your case, but youd have to also use some knowledgable comparisons, Pelton probably not the guy for that kind of writing/info.