1987 Magic Johnson vs 2016 Steph Curry

[Smoke117]

Give me Magic, for now.

I don't know why people going nuts even before playoffs.
People couldn't have talked enough about Durant in 2013-14 season. Claimed he's reached the top level by a SF. Compared him to Jordan in terms of offensive capabilities. And then?

At least wait until 2nd round of playoffs is over.

This.

[ClipperRevival]

The 2016 season isn't over yet so how can anyone answer this question? We need to see what he does in the playoffs, where it matters most. But regular season only? Of course Curry.

[DMAVS41]

I couldn't care less. I mentioned that aggression is a far better indicator that TS%. I have always said this and my first whole paragraph is about that. I brought up the career TS% to calm the efficiency argument down.

My recollection says that you didn't see him play. I could be wrong. If so you are just going by efficiency stats, right?

I have a post right now about Curry being unbelievable because of this trait. That he's very different from players like Dirk in that he doesn't get cold. But don't get me wrong, he super great because he stays aggressive.

That could be true one day in the future. But they are very different if you seen them play. One of Magic's best quality was that you could see how he made others better and more team oriented. Its a team game and if you didn't see him play you can't say what you said with any authority. He hasn't played a playoff game and you rank players much higher in the playoffs than you do the regular season right.

I watched Magic's entire career...WTF are you talking about?

You don't need to sell me on Magic...again, I have him as the third best player. His ability to control a game, make teammates better, do whatever was needed in a variety of ways...etc....is virtually unmatched in NBA history outside of maybe a handful of guys.

What Curry is currently doing, if he keeps up this level from start to finish...will trump any season Magic ever had.

Again, Curry has to do it all through the playoffs, but no season Magic ever had would be as good as that.

Curry is more than the best shooter ever. And not enough is made of that to be honest. It's not just that he's the best shooter ever...he's by far the best shooter ever and it's not remotely close.

Curry steps on the court and he outclasses a guy like peak Durant...and it's not particularly close to be honest. That is beyond special...

[DMAVS41]

The 2016 season isn't over yet so how can anyone answer this question? We need to see what he does in the playoffs, where it matters most. But regular season only? Of course Curry.

Of course.

My answer here is the same as it was with Durant.

Show me the playoffs.

But, if we assume this level all the way through? I don't think people understand just how amazing this is.

He's currently the all time leader in PER for a season. Now, think what you want of PER....being the best ever at something like that holds weight.

He'd have the best ws/48 all time.

It's beyond a historic season so far...it's on the short list of best seasons ever if he carries it through.

[IllegalD]

But what was Magic's PER? Stop dodging.

[ClipperRevival]

Of course.

My answer here is the same as it was with Durant.

Show me the playoffs.

But, if we assume this level all the way through? I don't think people understand just how amazing this is.

He's currently the all time leader in PER for a season. Now, think what you want of PER....being the best ever at something like that holds weight.

He'd have the best ws/48 all time.

It's beyond a historic season so far...it's on the short list of best seasons ever if he carries it through.

Agreed. If he keeps this up throughout the playoffs, it trumps Magic's quite handily. But that's a pretty big if. In the playoffs, you only play elite teams, the game slows down, is more physical and most importantly, you can adjust game by game. Everyone knows NBA playoffs is about adjustments. The right adjustments can win or lose a series. We have to see how Curry handles the immense attention he will be getting from teams and how he comes through. Having watched this game for too long, I am taking a wait and see approach instead of annointing him before it happens.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Apples and oranges. Magic was an actual PG. He didn't go around jacking up long 3's and 20+ shots a game he was a maestro who constantly set his teammates up. Curry should be compared to guys like Wade and Kobe before someone like Magic.

This.

[Pointguard]

I watched Magic's entire career...WTF are you talking about?

Not once have you ever engaged or even brought up his efficiency? Very odd being that you love the stat and here is the top ten GOAT who flaunted your favorite stat. You never ever join any conversation during Magic's tenure. No Bird conversations, is there a reason for this??? I rarely see you comment on things in the 90's. And you're a talkative guy.

You don't need to sell me on Magic...again, I have him as the third best player. His ability to control a game, make teammates better, do whatever was needed in a variety of ways...etc....is virtually unmatched in NBA history outside of maybe a handful of guys.

What Curry is currently doing, if he keeps up this level from start to finish...will trump any season Magic ever had.

It would be Jordan level. But there usually is some adaption going on in the playoffs. I just find it odd that you had Dirk on a 22/7 year surpass a Lebron 27/8/7 in the playoffs because of one bad series, so be it, the finals. But now Curry is trumping an all time great year with an f to the playoffs.

Again, Curry has to do it all through the playoffs, but no season Magic ever had would be as good as that.

Cool, but let that happen.

Curry is more than the best shooter ever. And not enough is made of that to be honest. It's not just that he's the best shooter ever...he's by far the best shooter ever and it's not remotely close.

Curry steps on the court and he outclasses a guy like peak Durant...and it's not particularly close to be honest. That is beyond special...

It was close. I think OKC wins and Durant outscores him if the refs let them play. And it was going that way until Durant fouled out in OT.

[DMAVS41]

Not once have you ever engaged or even brought up his efficiency? Very odd being that you love the stat and here is the top ten GOAT who flaunted your favorite stat. You never ever join any conversation during Magic's tenure. No Bird conversations, is there a reason for this??? I rarely see you comment on things in the 90's. And you're a talkative guy.

It would be Jordan level. But there usually is some adaption going on in the playoffs. I just find it odd that you had Dirk on a 22/7 year surpass a Lebron 27/8/7 in the playoffs because of one bad series, so be it, the finals. But now Curry is trumping an all time great year with an f to the playoffs.

Cool, but let that happen.

It was close. I think OKC wins and Durant outscores him if the refs let them play. And it was going that way until Durant fouled out in OT.

I've had many Magic and Bird and Moses and Hakeem conversations...plenty of Karl Malone conversations.

I'd rather talk more about recent stuff because it's more interesting to me...I've had all the old conversations when I was actually living it.

I have brought up how efficient Magic was, but you aren't realizing the huge difference. You keep thinking that Curry is currently just some super efficient player. That isn't doing justice to what Curry is doing. Curry is literally off the charts in terms of efficiency at this volume...and when you can do it on 3's...and extend the defense to near half court and have maybe the best off ball impact of the era....it's special.

It's special in a way someone like you will never understand.

You'll be stuck scratching your head at how someone that didn't play "old school" is being players that do or did.

I answered the thread...and said I'd need to see the playoffs before I officially say so, but...it's not anything of note at all to claim current Curry is better than Magic was at his best.

Don't think it's clear cut...don't think it's obvious...but that is how good Curry is right now...he's in the conversation this season with the best seasons the best players of all time have ever played.

The eye test, stats, advanced stats, team stats, and team success all show this.

[Angel Face]

Curry is a SG disguising as PG. Not good comparison

[Kblaze8855]

Apples and oranges. Magic was an actual PG.

You will not let this nonsense go will you? Curry is leading his team to 70 something wins and perhaps back to back rings. If he passed more...the Warriors offense...is WORSE. If its being more of a point to make your offense worse....being an "actual" point has no meaning. No positive one at least.

Go get some overpassing point and throw him on GS...watch them win 54 games and lose in the second round with a worse offense.

Points exist to implement a coaches gameplan...to dictate tempo and get good shots for the team. Passing up shots you can make at a historic rate...is being a bad point guard.

Curry comes up the floor looking to set someone up....his teams offense suffers. Explain to me why making his teams offense run well....is not the "actual" point guard thing to do. What purpose does a point serve...beyond getting the team good shots? Does that rule not apply when the best shot is your own? If not....how does that make a speck of sense?

Really.

Explain that to me.

Why would an "actual" point get his team worse shots....more likely to result in losing?

Are "actual" points complete ****ing morons?

If not...what would an "actual" point do on the Warriors given Currys skillset to work with? What are the odds that "actual" point makes the team worse by doing it? Fairly good id say. Perhaps certain. So why would it be a positive trait exactly?

We trying to have our point run an otherwordly offense that spearheads a dynasty....or are we trying to average 9 assists?

Please let me know why a good...an actual...pointguard....wouldnt do what makes the team most likely to win.

[brain drain]

Exactly.

A point guard's job is to facilitate his team's scoring. If the best scoring opportunity at a given situation is to shoot the ball himself, he's got to do it.
If the best option for scoring is to pass the ball to a player who passes it to another player, then that's the correct play.

People who get so hung up about apgs /direct assist simply are too narrow-minded to see that that's just one way to facilitate scoring, but not the whole range of options.

And given his options, shooting is a very good decision if you're Steph Curry. And passing to Draymond (which often "only" ends up benig a hockey assist that nobody counts) also is a very good decision.

Insisting to produce direct assists just to produce apg numbers and be a "real floor general" would simply be stupid.

[Kblaze8855]

I wish we had ISH in the 70s so I could look up dudes calling out Walt Frazier for 6 assists a game on a title run because hes playing with Bill bradley, Jerry Lucas, and other playmakers who(like the warriors) are racking up 30 assist games as a team with beautiful ball movement while he leads them in scoring. Cut that out....go rack up cheap assists and lose in the ECF Walt. Thats what a real point would do. Pass...and pass and pass...while people worse than you miss shots you can make. Thats a logical thing to do when the goal is a strong offense and victory....

[Milbuck]

Yeah, this archaic definition of point guard never ceases to bug the shit out of me. The word for word definition of point guard as you type it into google:

the backcourt player who directs the team's offense.

A point guard, like other player positions in basketball, specializes in certain skills. A point guard's job is to create scoring opportunities for his/her team

That's it. The player that runs the team's offense, whatever the hell that offense may be. The guy that takes what the coach draws up and brings it to life on court, and does it consistently.

The Warriors run a high on ball and off ball motion offense centered around Curry's insane gravity as a shotmaker/scorer from long distance. His ability to create off the dribble as well as warp defenses off the ball coming off screens in catch and shoot situations...drives that offense. Just because he isn't pounding the air out of the ball all the time and deliberately not scoring in favor of passing does not mean he is not running an offense...he absolutely is. It just so happens that the type of offense they run is totally unlike the offenses that a generic "traditional" point guard would fit in.

He's still the primary ball handler who is the clear go-to option to create offense out of nothing. He's still one of the if not the best passers on his team who unquestionably makes everyone better around him with his passes. They run a system...that system runs based on Curry...hence he is the one running the system. He is a point guard.

Also, Steph Curry averages ~8 assists a game since breaking out in '13 (and they're not Brandon Knight assists either, he's legitimately a very good playmaker) despite being an otherworldly scoring threat. Where did this idea that he's not setting up his teammates like a PG come from..?

[Harison]

I love AMC, but fans should really take a break from living in a moment. Curry is getting overrated to the extent its ridiculous, some even pick him over MJ, what to speak of Magic