1987 Magic Johnson vs 2016 Steph Curry

[Jacks3]

You're right. That was hyperbole. I still think Curry has been more impressive, but obviously he has to keep it up for the rest of the reg season and playoffs.

[kshutts1]

Two part question for anyone, but I don't expect anyone but a handful of people on this site to be able to answer...

Part 1:
Prior to Lebron James, was efficiency a strong metric in determining how good a player was? I just don't remember that, ever, being part of the discussion for AI or Kobe, much less earlier athletes like Jordan, Magic, Bird, Doc, West, Baylor, Cousy, etc.

Part 2:
We saw with Wilt that one player can choose to focus on any area and improve, greatly, upon that. Do you believe that the same could hold true for efficiency? As in... Curry may be the most efficient scorer ever right now (I'm not sure, and don't care to look it up) but is it fair to argue that if efficiency was not a goal of prior generations, but we could go back and change that, that their efficiency would go up?

[lakers_forever]

You're right. That was hyperbole.

[LARRY BROWN]

magic won 5 titles
curry has 1

magic !5 beat s 1 everytime!

[Odinn]

Give me Magic, for now.

I don't know why people going nuts even before playoffs.
People couldn't have talked enough about Durant in 2013-14 season. Claimed he's reached the top level by a SF. Compared him to Jordan in terms of offensive capabilities. And then?

At least wait until 2nd round of playoffs is over.

[Pointguard]

magic won 5 titles
curry has 1

magic !5 beat s 1 everytime!

Funny how the ring argument has been soooo quiet lately. I didn't think the prison of the moment thing would override the ring argument but it most certainly has of late.

[plowking]

Funny how the ring argument has been soooo quiet lately. I didn't think the prison of the moment thing would override the ring argument but it most certainly has of late.

What has being a better basketball player at a point in time have to do with winning rings?

Jerry West is a better SG in any season compared to Andre Igoudala, ring or not. Same way Charles Barkley is better than Chris Bosh in any of his seasons.

[Pointguard]

What has being a better basketball player at a point in time have to do with winning rings?

Jerry West is a better SG in any season compared to Andre Igoudala, ring or not. Same way Charles Barkley is better than Chris Bosh in any of his seasons.

I was never a ring argument guy. You never see me making that argument. But it comes up a lot. Rarely do people compare great years unless its a ring year. Happens all the time here. If Karl Malone won a ring he's mentioned much more than he does now.

[FillJackson]

Two part question for anyone, but I don't expect anyone but a handful of people on this site to be able to answer...

Part 1:
Prior to Lebron James, was efficiency a strong metric in determining how good a player was? I just don't remember that, ever, being part of the discussion for AI or Kobe, much less earlier athletes like Jordan, Magic, Bird, Doc, West, Baylor, Cousy, etc.

Part 2:
We saw with Wilt that one player can choose to focus on any area and improve, greatly, upon that. Do you believe that the same could hold true for efficiency? As in... Curry may be the most efficient scorer ever right now (I'm not sure, and don't care to look it up) but is it fair to argue that if efficiency was not a goal of prior generations, but we could go back and change that, that their efficiency would go up?

It's not Lebron that caused this. It's the moneyball revolution in stats that caused this first in baseball and then later in basketball. Lebron just happen to come up at this time.

You had a sense that efficiency was important but you didn't have the terminology for it. However, nobody who knew the game thought that "ball hogs" or "chuckers" were good players.
These guys could win you games when hot, but just as often they would shoot you out of games. After Bird and Magic came into the league, the idea of the guy who score the most points is the best player started to die.

I also do think that older players could have improved their efficiency with the modern star focus. Players today have folks telling them, "you know from 15 feet on the right side, you hit 6% more shots than from 15 feet on the left side."

So the player either practices his left side shot, or take more from the right side.

[tpols]

Curry is easily better. Dude is anchoring a better offense than Magic ever did and it's not close. He also obliterates Magic as a scorer and shooter and his efficiency is in another universe.

this.


It would also make the warriors less effective if Curry tried to rondo his way to higher assist averages .. by using draymond as another key facilitator the team unlocks higher level of offensive sophistication.

[DMAVS41]

Two part question for anyone, but I don't expect anyone but a handful of people on this site to be able to answer...

Part 1:
Prior to Lebron James, was efficiency a strong metric in determining how good a player was? I just don't remember that, ever, being part of the discussion for AI or Kobe, much less earlier athletes like Jordan, Magic, Bird, Doc, West, Baylor, Cousy, etc.

Part 2:
We saw with Wilt that one player can choose to focus on any area and improve, greatly, upon that. Do you believe that the same could hold true for efficiency? As in... Curry may be the most efficient scorer ever right now (I'm not sure, and don't care to look it up) but is it fair to argue that if efficiency was not a goal of prior generations, but we could go back and change that, that their efficiency would go up?

1. Smart people, in one way or another, have always cared about efficiency. Phil Jackson always used to say the first thing he looked at after a game was field goal percentage. It depends on the player in question...nobody was talking about Bill Russell's field goal percentage, i'd imagine, for obvious reasons. But comparing Iverson to Kobe to Curry...regardless of era...people would be talking about efficiency.

Now, you hear it more now, because of the nature of the game and the type of players in question.

Efficiency simply is going to matter more for a Curry, Harden, Durant...etc....than dominant two way bigs.


2. Perhaps if older players cared more about efficiency they could have improved, but I don't think there would be transformations. Efficiency is just a measure of how you score...I seriously doubt players in the past were just far more capable of missing less shots if they just focused on it more. You'd see some variations, but not wide sweeping changes.

Take Iverson...I don't think there is a version of Iverson that could be far more efficient than he was. It was his game...he didn't have the skillset to be a highly efficient player imo.

[SouBeachTalents]

If Curry maintains this level of play into the playoffs/Finals, he'd get the nod from me. He won't have much room for error though, Magic averaged 22/8/12 on 54% through the '87 playoffs, and put up 26/8/13 on 54% in the Finals, simply phenomenal numbers

[Pointguard]

Curry is easily better. Dude is anchoring a better offense than Magic ever did and it's not close. He also obliterates Magic as a scorer and shooter and his efficiency is in another universe.

You guys get carried away with efficiency. Its never has been a primary stat of greats. This board, minus myself, never mentions that Magic was the most efficient top ten GOAT by quite a margin. It never comes up as an item when talking about the top ten GOAT's here or comparing them to each other. It comes up plenty when talking about lesser players. Nobody else here can even lie and say "yea, I bring it up when comparing the top ten GOATS."

Back to the topic at hand, Green really anchors that offense and its hard to say which offense was better between GSW and Magic's best. In general the Lakers had a more balanced attack with more players scoring consistently all over the court and shooting a higher percentage from the field. GSW obviously is a better long range shooting team. TS% careerwise they Magic and Curry are very close. Curry 613 TS% to Magic's 609%.

The team comparison in the years mentioned.

LA.... FG 516%
GSW FG 488%

LA ...ORTG 116.6
GSW ORTG 114.4

LA... EFG 528%
GSW EFG 563%

The differences really being in the style of the ages. For myself, I like the Lakers versatility a little better but board loves shooters.

[DMAVS41]

You guys get carried away with efficiency. Its never has been a primary stat of greats. This board, minus myself, never mentions that Magic was the most efficient top ten GOAT by quite a margin. It never comes up as an item when talking about the top ten GOAT's here or comparing them to each other. It comes up plenty when talking about lesser players. Nobody else here can even lie and say "yea, I bring it up when comparing the top ten GOATS."

Back to the topic at hand, Green really anchors that offense and its hard to say which offense was better between GSW and Magic's best. In general the Lakers had a more balanced attack with more players scoring consistently all over the court and shooting a higher percentage from the field. GSW obviously is a better long range shooting team. TS% careerwise they Magic and Curry are very close. Curry 613 TS% to Magic's 609%.

The team comparison in the years mentioned.

LA.... FG 516%
GSW FG 488%

LA ...ORTG 116.6
GSW ORTG 114.4

LA... EFG 528%
GSW EFG 563%

The differences really being in the style of the ages. For myself, I like the Lakers versatility a little better but board loves shooters.

Current Curry is at near 69% TS last time I checked...it's not about career. It's about how steph is playing right now vs how good Magic was in 87.

I love Magic...have him as the 3rd best player last time I did my list, but current Curry is better. Now, he's got to finish the season out mind you...

You simply don't and seemingly never will understand the power of elite shot making...and what Curry has done this year is take it to a level we've never seen.

And that level trumps any other advantages Magic had imo.

[Pointguard]

Current Curry is at near 69% TS last time I checked...it's not about career. It's about how steph is playing right now vs how good Magic was in 87.

I couldn't care less. I mentioned that aggression is a far better indicator that TS%. I have always said this and my first whole paragraph is about that. I brought up the career TS% to calm the efficiency argument down.

I love Magic...have him as the 3rd best player last time I did my list, but current Curry is better. Now, he's got to finish the season out mind you...

My recollection says that you didn't see him play. I could be wrong. If so you are just going by efficiency stats, right?

You simply don't and seemingly never will understand the power of elite shot making...and what Curry has done this year is take it to a level we've never seen.

I have a post right now about Curry being unbelievable because of this trait. That he's very different from players like Dirk in that he doesn't get cold. But don't get me wrong, he super great because he stays aggressive.

And that level trumps any other advantages Magic had imo.

That could be true one day in the future. But they are very different if you seen them play. One of Magic's best quality was that you could see how he made others better and more team oriented. Its a team game and if you didn't see him play you can't say what you said with any authority. He hasn't played a playoff game and you rank players much higher in the playoffs than you do the regular season right.