Duncan 0-2 with a HUGE 2 points in a 29 point win...

[dhsilv]

Who cares, people wil apparently always favor defense over offense.

If you see someone scoring 25 with no defense, people will claim "yeah, but he played no defense"

If you see someone scoring 0 while playing defense, people will claim"yeah, but he played defense"

Apparently, one 50% of the game is better than the other 50%

How well did said player score 25? How many points were created outside of those? Rarely is a guy playing elite offense AND scoring 25 and people are being critical (unless it's kobe or lebron because well they get hated on).

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

The best stat we have says Duncan when on the court is the 9th most impactful player in his role. Think about that for a second. Is the eye test and our best metric wrong or is he maybe doing things that aren't finding their way into the box score?

[Quickening]

How well did said player score 25? How many points were created outside of those? Rarely is a guy playing elite offense AND scoring 25 and people are being critical (unless it's kobe or lebron because well they get hated on).

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

The best stat we have says Duncan when on the court is the 9th most impactful player in his role. Think about that for a second. Is the eye test and our best metric wrong or is he maybe doing things that aren't finding their way into the box score?

People using the eye test think Duncan is one of the top ten impactful defenders in the NBA?

[DMAVS41]

How well did said player score 25? How many points were created outside of those? Rarely is a guy playing elite offense AND scoring 25 and people are being critical (unless it's kobe or lebron because well they get hated on).

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

The best stat we have says Duncan when on the court is the 9th most impactful player in his role. Think about that for a second. Is the eye test and our best metric wrong or is he maybe doing things that aren't finding their way into the box score?

It doesn't really say that though. It says, in his role, Duncan is making a great contribution.

It isn't saying he's the 9th most impactful player...even if you include the caveat of....in his role.

You'd have to compare him to a player playing similar minutes in a similar role to really "rank him"...and that is going to be hard given his all time loaded team. If you switched Zaza and Duncan....Zaza would likely have the better RPM...even though Duncan is the better player...although not by much to be honest.

What that stat is good for, however, is to at least show Duncan is playing quality basketball and is still a very good player.

Where he actually ranks...I'm not sure. He certainly isn't close to as valuable as Durant, Butler, or Chris Paul.

[stalkerforlife]

because he can cakewalk through the ****ing RS since 2007 while spurs will nevertheless be top 4. he can save his energy during the long and exhausting RS, while KOBE and DIRK have to carry scrub at max just for reaching the playoffs.

Bingo.

[dhsilv]

People using the eye test think Duncan is one of the top ten impactful defenders in the NBA?

Well of course, are you watching him? Great possitioning, great timing. He's playing great defense. Now...he's got a hell of a team and that makes his job easier but we all know talent makes talent look better. Is that a knock on him?

[dhsilv]

It doesn't really say that though. It says, in his role, Duncan is making a great contribution.

It isn't saying he's the 9th most impactful player...even if you include the caveat of....in his role.

You'd have to compare him to a player playing similar minutes in a similar role to really "rank him"...and that is going to be hard given his all time loaded team. If you switched Zaza and Duncan....Zaza would likely have the better RPM...even though Duncan is the better player...although not by much to be honest.

What that stat is good for, however, is to at least show Duncan is playing quality basketball and is still a very good player.

Where he actually ranks...I'm not sure. He certainly isn't close to as valuable as Durant, Butler, or Chris Paul.

It is showing as best we can measure that in doing his role it is the 9th best (pending a massive adjustment for margin of error) in terms box score impact. Now I cannot take that ranking and then say he's the 9th best player because the role he plays is not the same as others.

Now espn does throw in WINS ranking him 23rd if you want a bit more of a minute adjustment, i get why you'll not agree that it's a perfect match but it at least adds more color.

Lets also remember Duncan could take on a bigger role something a similar player to him likely could not do. It might impact him negatively here but still he's far more versatile than any other similar player we could come up with.

[f0und]

its called defense, leadership, sacrifice, and knowing his role.

he's still an impactful defensive player

he leads by playing the game the right way, instead of just trying to score

he sacrificed money to get good players around him

he knows his role and limitations and doesnt try to go beyond them


usually, when you see the boxscore and see a player with 2 points in 29 minutes, youd think the guy is pretty worthless. but you cant just look at the boxscore and nothing else. this isnt baseball. id bet my left nut that if SA didnt have duncan on this team, they would not be on this historic run.

[La Frescobaldi]

People using the eye test think Duncan is one of the top ten impactful defenders in the NBA?

I definitely think that, yeah for my part. He is ALWAYS right in the way whenever somebody tries to go in there

They don't even get a shot off, they just turn around and dribble back out..... hmmmm better try something else

[Dragonyeuw]

Dirk is every bit the 'franchise' player as Duncan. He hasn't had the stability that the Spurs organization has always had around Duncan. Now, to be clear, alot of that stability comes from Duncan himself. But the Spurs top brass have always managed to reload and never drop off as a contender around the Duncan/Parker/Ginobli trio, even as they've aged. It would be interesting to have seen Dirk in that kind of environment. I suspect he'd have quite a few more titles.

[ScalsFan21]

Is Duncan top 10 or better all-time? Absolutely. Will any changes to his ring count from this point forward have a real impact on his legacy? Not really.

[wordsRweapons]

MVP Leonard with 15/4 on 5/11 shooting

[DMAVS41]

It is showing as best we can measure that in doing his role it is the 9th best (pending a massive adjustment for margin of error) in terms box score impact. Now I cannot take that ranking and then say he's the 9th best player because the role he plays is not the same as others.

Now espn does throw in WINS ranking him 23rd if you want a bit more of a minute adjustment, i get why you'll not agree that it's a perfect match but it at least adds more color.

Lets also remember Duncan could take on a bigger role something a similar player to him likely could not do. It might impact him negatively here but still he's far more versatile than any other similar player we could come up with.

No, I agree with most of this...I'm just pointing out that we have to be really careful here with these RPM numbers because what kind of role and team you play with really skews them.

Which is why I like to only use them in a broad sense. Like...regardless of what anyone says...Duncan is still a very good player.

How good? I really don't know...he's nowhere near the 9th best player in the league. But he's comfortably in the top 40...perhaps higher.

[dhsilv]

No, I agree with most of this...I'm just pointing out that we have to be really careful here with these RPM numbers because what kind of role and team you play with really skews them.

Which is why I like to only use them in a broad sense. Like...regardless of what anyone says...Duncan is still a very good player.

How good? I really don't know...he's nowhere near the 9th best player in the league. But he's comfortably in the top 40...perhaps higher.

I don't disagree with this. I was by no means trying to imply duncan is a top 10 player. A month ago hearing he'd be an all star, I'd have thought that reasonable. Now I"m a bit less sure as he has dropped off enough offensively. Top 40 is just no question.

I think wins placing him at 23rd is reasonable enough.

[tontoz]

Duncan salary this season- $5,250,000. Other players, following his lead, also take less than market value.

Duncan, West, Ginobili and Parker combined make $23 million

Kobe salary this season- $25 million

[DMAVS41]

I don't disagree with this. I was by no means trying to imply duncan is a top 10 player. A month ago hearing he'd be an all star, I'd have thought that reasonable. Now I"m a bit less sure as he has dropped off enough offensively. Top 40 is just no question.

I think wins placing him at 23rd is reasonable enough.

Yea...not sure where I'd place him...it's tough.

Where are you getting the wins stat?

ESPN has him at 72nd in estimated wins added.