You have to lose the finals, who do you pick?

[Wade's Rings]

Was this during or after the Spurs dared LeBron to shoot?

Along with the turnovers and bad defense he shot the ball like shit, and you're here jerking off to this performance?

Clown.

This guy also says Lebron had less help in the '13 Finals than Wade in the '11 Finals by bringing up the raw stats and when I mention Bron's 4th Quarters, he completely ignores it or doesn't mention them at all. However the 4th Quarters have suddenly become relevant in this discussion.

[Dr Hawk]

Bill Russell. Give him an slightly above average team and enjoy the L's

[Bankaii]

This guy also says Lebron had less help in the '13 Finals than Wade in the '11 Finals by bringing up the raw stats and when I mention Bron's 4th Quarters, he completely ignores it or doesn't mention them at all. However the 4th Quarters have suddenly become relevant in this discussion.

Quit making shit up.

Post Lebrons 2011 4th quarter and Wade's 2013 4th quarter stats.

[Wade's Rings]

Quit making shit up.

Post Lebrons 2011 4th quarter and Wade's 2013 4th quarter stats.

We've had this debate constantly, stop acting like you have no idea what I'm referencing. You've been on record saying Wade in the '11 Finals had more help than Bron in the '13 Finals.

Here's your exact post claiming Wade had more help in the'11 Finals than Bron in the '13 Finals: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...4&postcount=40

But yeah I'm making this shit up. You're a f*cking dumbass. Even dumber than dubeta and his alts.

Throughout the rest of the thread we debate about that.

Wade game 1: 0pts 0-2
Game 2: played 1 minute and a half 0pts 0-1
Game 3: blowout already 4pts 2-5
Game 4: 8 pts 4-6 within 13pts, from 13+ points on 2pts 1-3
Game 5: 3pts 1-4
Game 6: 2pts 0-2
Game 7: 5pts 2-5

Close Games (1,4,6,7): 3.75 on 40%

Lebron Game 1: 5pts 2-4
Game 2: 2pts 0-4
Game 3: 2pts 1-3
Game 4: 0pts 0-1
Game 5: 2pts 1-4
Game 6: 7pts 3-5

Close Games (entire series): 3 on 33% shooting

Not to mention Wade played defense that series.

[plowking]

There probably isn't a single NBA player ever that wins the last two finals in place of LeBron given everything else holds constant.

Maybe Wilt or Shaq could, but not likely.

[Bankaii]

We've had this debate constantly, stop acting like you have no idea what I'm referencing. You've been on record saying Wade in the '11 Finals had more help than Bron in the '13 Finals.

Here's your exact post claiming Wade had more help in the'11 Finals than Bron in the '13 Finals: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...4&postcount=40

But yeah I'm making this shit up. You're a f*cking dumbass. Even dumber than dubeta and his alts.

Throughout the rest of the thread we debate about that.

Wade game 1: 0pts 0-2
Game 2: played 1 minute and a half 0pts 0-1
Game 3: blowout already 4pts 2-5
Game 4: 8 pts 4-6 within 13pts, from 13+ points on 2pts 1-3
Game 5: 3pts 1-4
Game 6: 2pts 0-2
Game 7: 5pts 2-5

Close Games (1,4,6,7): 3.75 on 40%

Lebron Game 1: 5pts 2-4
Game 2: 2pts 0-4
Game 3: 2pts 1-3
Game 4: 0pts 0-1
Game 5: 2pts 1-4
Game 6: 7pts 3-5

Close Games (entire series): 3 on 33% shooting

Not to mention Wade played defense that series.

My goodness you're a fkn idiot. Idk what your obsession with me is but after you hold this L maybe you'll hop off.

Wade-
Game 1: Lets look at the entire 2nd half: 2-7, 4 points.
Game 2: Entire 2nd half: 0 points, 0-3, 0-2 FT.
Game 3: Entire 2nd half (down 44-50 at start): 3-8, 4 points.
Game 4: Great game. Huge reason they won.
Game 5: Entire 2nd half (down 52-61): 4-10, 11 points.
Game 6: They went on that huge comeback run in the 4 while Wade was on the bench. And in overtime: 0-1, 0 points.
Game 7: Entire 2nd half: 4-9. 9 points.

Wade was terrible for the 2nd half for 5/6 games. In the biggest game of the series dude played little to no role in the comeback that kept them in the game. In fact when he came back in the Spurs took the lead again.

When you factor in the level of their teammates as well as the level of their competition. Wade and Lebron at worst had equal help. Wade wasn't able to pull a 2013 game 6 Lebron where he just takes over and wins a quarter (practically) on his own despite the play of his teammates when it was needed.

Please don't misinterpret what I'm saying. 2011 is the 2nd worst Finals series I've seen in my life for a Top 10 GOAT. If he had played like even a regular star, Heat win. But Wade had enough help to win.

[Wade's Rings]

My goodness you're a fkn idiot. Idk what your obsession with me is but after you hold this L maybe you'll hop off.

You're the one who replied to me in this thread. Then I ignored you and you replied to me again.

Wade-
Game 1: Lets look at the entire 2nd half: 2-7, 4 points.
Game 2: Entire 2nd half: 0 points, 0-3, 0-2 FT.
Game 3: Entire 2nd half (down 44-50 at start): 3-8, 4 points.
Game 4: Great game. Huge reason they won.
Game 5: Entire 2nd half (down 52-61): 4-10, 11 points.
Game 6: They went on that huge comeback run in the 4 while Wade was on the bench. And in overtime: 0-1, 0 points.
Game 7: Entire 2nd half: 4-9. 9 points.

Wade was terrible for the 2nd half for 5/6 games. In the biggest game of the series dude played little to no role in the comeback that kept them in the game. In fact when he came back in the Spurs took the lead again.

How was he terrible in the 2nd half of Game 5 or 7? Game 6 was the game he banged knees with Ginobili he was playing IIRC until that point.

When you factor in the level of their teammates as well as the level of their competition. Wade and Lebron at worst had equal help. Wade wasn't able to pull a 2013 game 6 Lebron where he just takes over and wins a quarter (practically) on his own despite the play of his teammates when it was needed.

Again your ignorance. Bron wasn't doing anything to help the Heat. You ignore my point about playing Defense. In Game 2 after they go up 15 Bron proceeds to statpad and Wade gets 3 shots and 1 of them comes at the end of the shotclock and another was a deep 3 at the end of the game. In Game 4, Bron had 8 points..2 coming off a flop and another a spoon fed dunk from Wade, Did Wade have a game like this? In Game 5 after Wade puts the Heat up 4 with about 4 minutes left, Lebron misses 2 jumpers and has 2 turnovers as the Heat lose the lead and momentum. These were the key moments I was referring to. Wade didn't have moments like this in the '13 Finals where he completely lost the Heat there momentum, etc. That's the biggest difference outside of Defense.

[Bankaii]

You're the one who replied to me in this thread. Then I ignored you and you replied to me again.

Insulting me to kuniva cause you're too bitch to respond to me directly is essentially the same as replying.

How was he terrible in the 2nd half of Game 5 or 7? Game 6 was the game he banged knees with Ginobili he was playing IIRC until that point.

If you combine the 2 second halves of games 5 and 7 Wade had 20 points on 8-19 shooting (42%) along with 4 turnovers through 4 quarters of basketball. That's not bad?

Again your ignorance. Bron wasn't doing anything to help the Heat. You ignore my point about playing Defense. In Game 2 after they go up 15 Bron proceeds to statpad and Wade gets 3 shots and 1 of them comes at the end of the shotclock and another was a deep 3 at the end of the game. In Game 4, Bron had 8 points..2 coming off a flop and another a spoon fed dunk from Wade, Did Wade have a game like this? In Game 5 after Wade puts the Heat up 4 with about 4 minutes left, Lebron misses 2 jumpers and has 2 turnovers as the Heat lose the lead and momentum. These were the key moments I was referring to. Wade didn't have moments like this in the '13 Finals where he completely lost the Heat there momentum, etc. That's the biggest difference outside of Defense.[/QUOTE]
You're overstating Wade's defense. He had some big moments, but there were also times where it was subpar. Overall it was average, nothing to gloat about.
Danny Green was 25/38 (66%) from 3. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that Wade's main guy?

The heat didn't lose momentum in 2013 because Lebron got other players involved or scored himself.

Game 1: 3rd Quarter: Heat up 58-51. Wade misses a shot and turns the ball over and the Spurs cut the lead to 1. After the timeout Lebron comes out and scores then gets Haslem and Chalmers going and they go up 5.

Game 5: 3rd Quarter: Down 60-61 Wade makes a bad pass which leads to a 3 by Danny Green. Then Manu makes it a 8 point lead. Then Lebron changes the momentum and gets Wade and Chalmers 2 easy baskets abd assists Wade 2 more times to cut the lead.

Game 6: They're down by 12 in the 3rd. Wade goes to the bench and they go on historic 24-9 run Lebron scored or assisted on 21/24 points to go up 3. Wade comes back in and the Spurs go back up 5. Lebron hits a clutch 3, and you know the rest. Overtime: Lebron assists or scores ever point except 2 while Wade craps the bed.

Game 7: In the final minute Wade was 0/1 with only 1 point from a free throw after the game was over. Lebron scored 5 points including the dagger and a steal which lead to clutch game ending free throws.

Just look at his +/- for games 6&7. He was a net negative at times.

The difference between Wade and Bron is that when Wade struggled Bron got him open shots or got teammates involved. Wade isn't the playmaker Lebron is.

But a first you said Lebron was overall bad. Then you changed it to his 4th quarters was worse than Wade's. Now it's "Lebron ruined momentum". You keep changing posts, what is it gonna be now?

[Wade's Rings]

Insulting me to kuniva cause you're too bitch to respond to me directly is essentially the same as replying.

I have responded to you directly and insulted you directly in other threads: http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/sho...9&postcount=47 I didn't want to waste my time in this thread arguing with your ignorant self.

In this thread you respond to me, I ignore you and you then reply to me again, but you accuse me of being obsessed with you. Do you not realize how stupid you sound? Don't avoid it like you always do when you get proven wrong, answer that question.

If you combine the 2 second halves of games 5 and 7 Wade had 20 points on 8-19 shooting (42%) along with 4 turnovers through 4 quarters of basketball. That's not bad?

4 turnovers through 4 quarters is the equivalent of 4 turnovers in 1 Game?

In Game 5 he scored 8pts in the 3rd and helped the Heat make that comeback to put it within 1 and he was subbed out with the Heat down 6 in the 3rd and he entered the Game in the 4th with the Heat down 12 and having lost momentum and 2 seconds after he entered the Heat were down 14.

In Game 7 he scored 4pts in the 3rd quarter & 5pts in the 4th Quarter. I don't see that as horrible. Solid not horrible or great.

You're overstating Wade's defense. He had some big moments, but there were also times where it was subpar. Overall it was average, nothing to gloat about.
Danny Green was 25/38 (66%) from 3. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't that Wade's main guy?

If you watched that series you would see that Green got a lot of 3s in transition. Wade also averaged 1.9 steals and 1.3 blocks.

The heat didn't lose momentum in 2013 because Lebron got other players involved or scored himself.

Game 1: 3rd Quarter: Heat up 58-51. Wade misses a shot and turns the ball over and the Spurs cut the lead to 1. After the timeout Lebron comes out and scores then gets Haslem and Chalmers going and they go up 5.

Game 5: 3rd Quarter: Down 60-61 Wade makes a bad pass which leads to a 3 by Danny Green. Then Manu makes it a 8 point lead. Then Lebron changes the momentum and gets Wade and Chalmers 2 easy baskets abd assists Wade 2 more times to cut the lead.

Game 6: They're down by 12 in the 3rd. Wade goes to the bench and they go on historic 24-9 run Lebron scored or assisted on 21/24 points to go up 3. Wade comes back in and the Spurs go back up 5. Lebron hits a clutch 3, and you know the rest. Overtime: Lebron assists or scores ever point except 2 while Wade craps the bed.

Game 7: In the final minute Wade was 0/1 with only 1 point from a free throw after the game was over. Lebron scored 5 points including the dagger and a steal which lead to clutch game ending free throws.

You're helping prove my point of how Bron screwed them over and Wade didn't. He took the ball at inopportune times and lost the Heat their momentum.

Game 1: Wade had 5pts, 2rbds, 2asts, 1blk in the last 5 minutes.

Game 3: 7pts, hit a 3 to put us up 6 and another late basket to take the lead.

Game 4: He had 7pts & 2 blks. His only mistake was the missed Free Throw with 30 seconds left.
Where was Bron this Game? You don't think Wade wins if he gets more than 8pts on 3/11 from Bron? You think Bron wins Game 7 8pts from Wade? How about if Wade only had 8 in Game 5 would the Heat have even pulled within 1? This is what you can't grasp.

Game 5: 10pts 3asts, 1stl, 1blk. After Wade makes the 3 to put the Heat up 99-95 Lebron holds the ball for 3 Possessions coming up with 2 missed shots and a turnover. He killed the Heats momentum and their run. When did Wade do this?

Just look at his +/- for games 6&7. He was a net negative at times.

The difference between Wade and Bron is that when Wade struggled Bron got him open shots or got teammates involved. Wade isn't the playmaker Lebron is.

So his 2asts in the last 5 minutes of Game 1 didn't help? 3 asts in Game 5?

Your point is also ignorant because Wade plays off-ball and that allowed Lebron to help him. Lebron got the ball in Game 2 and pounded away, in Game 5 got the ball and pounded away.

But a first you said Lebron was overall bad. Then you changed it to his 4th quarters was worse than Wade's. Now it's "Lebron ruined momentum". You keep changing posts, what is it gonna be now?

I always said his 4th quarter play was worse than Wade's. Him ruining momentum was part of his 4th Quarter choking. Holds the ball after the Heat go up 15 in the 4th Quarter of Game 2, Turnovers and missed jumpers in the 4th quarter of Game 5 after Wade puts the Heat up 4. My posts never changed, if you could read you would know that.

[Harison]

1) Lebron James
2) Wilt Chamberlain
3) Jerry West

Order is correct, however Jerry doesnt belong to this list, he is one of the best Finals performers of All-time.

[pauk]

For a number one option, it's pretty sub-par.

It is but he wasnt exactly #1 option to its full context the first miami year... it was a my turn your turn thing with chemistry problems and it caught them at the worst possible time in the finals... thats why they lost, things didnt happen for miami until next year when lebron ball officially got the greenlight... 2011 would never happen or at least lebron sure would produce up to his standards if he had that greenlight already... the guy averaged 14 fga ffs, he never took that few shots in his life... critics would love to act like he choked or something, but that didnt happen at all, you have to try and then fail for you to choke.... but he didnt and there was a reason behind it...

Except for that unfortunate occasion lebron has been one of the greatest playoff performers in nba history, considering what he had to work with and against especially in finals, fantastic in the clutch aswell with now even more gamewinners than even jordan....

So if you wanna lose a series with him you better be having a horrible supporting cast.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Where Elgin Baylor? 0-8 speaks for itself.

[LAZERUSS]

1) Lebron James
2) Wilt Chamberlain
3) Jerry West

Same team apart from these players, the performance of the other player's wont affect the result.


10 million dollars per final loss.

Depends. If the opposing team and their best player has an equal roster...well we know you wouldn't want Wilt. We saw that in '67. A dominating title.

Now, if you want to give Wilt a roster with clowns, and an incompetent coach, and are playing a much better overall team...he might lose a game seven by two points.

[Spurs5Rings2014]

Depends. If the opposing team and their best player has an equal roster...well we know you wouldn't want Wilt. We saw that in '67. A dominating title.

Now, if you want to give Wilt a roster with clowns, and an incompetent coach, and are playing a much better overall team...he might lose a game seven by two points.

But the more important question is, would his production decrease rather than elevate like other ATG's?

[LAZERUSS]

But the more important question is, would his production decrease rather than elevate like other ATG's?

Let me give you an example...

Russell basically built his post-season stats against the Lakers in FIVE finals in the 60's (actually he played them six times, but in the one in which he faced Wilt, he did absolutely nothing.)

Had Wilt even played the Lakers ONCE in that decade, and he likely would hold every post-season scoring and efficiency record.