Was Melo robbed of 2004 ROTY Award?

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Actually following the logic, Kyle is the 3rd best player behind Curry and Westbrook.

Skinny Lowry on that pilates shit. Putting the league on notice, Raps actually gonna make it to the second round!

[ArbitraryWater]

True Story: Besides his TMZ stories, John Max has never spoken a single word out of HIS mouth/keyboard

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/le...ear.453300383/

In the 03 offseason the Nuggets signed Andre Miller, Voshon Lenard and Earl Boykins. The Cavs signed Kevin Ollie, Ira Newble and Jelani McCoy.

The Cavs were the exact same team as 02-03 just with LeBron. The Nuggets signed 2 starters and a 6th man, plus Marcus Camby wasn't injured in 03-04.

Attributing the Nuggets improved record to solely Melo is wrong.

[tmacattack33]

It's a legit argument. Melo outscored( well 21.0 to 20.9, negligible but still), shot a higher TS, more rebounds, and made the playoffs in a tougher conference. That's pretty much the only time they were ever arguably 'on par' as players though.

LOL please. The points, TS%, and rebounds are all very close to neglible.

The assists, however, aren't even close. Lebron doubled Carmelo in assists, and from day 1 Lebron had top 5 passing vision in the NBA while Melo was not a good passer.

So, you talk about all these other stats that have a neglible difference, yet you glance over Lebron's best trait. LOL.

I suppose you wanna go back to Chris Paul's rookie of the year and pick someone else who had a neglible lead over him in points, TS%, and rebounds, and fail to mention the assists.

Or, you want to go back and knock Oscar Robertson out of the top 10 GOAT lists because you found somebody who had negligibly better scoring and rebound stats, but half the assists.

GTFOH.

[ShaqTwizzle]

LOL please. The points, TS%, and rebounds are all very close to neglible.

Eh.

A 2.1% difference in efficiency is certainly not negligible. That is significant.

Also while they scored about the same Carmelo got his volume in 3 less minutes and also outrebounded Bron in 3 less minutes.

R-Melo was also the better defender of the two.

while Melo was not a good passer.

2.8-apg isn't bad at all for a an average SF or any SF who isn't in a playmaking role.

So, you talk about all these other stats that have a neglible difference, yet you glance over Lebron's best trait.

Yes he was a better playmaker but don't act like the gap is gigantic.
We are talking 3 extra assists.

3 assists VS 2% efficiency, better rebounding and 3 less minutes is close...

[HurricaneKid]

2015 RAPM data suggests that currently Kyle Lowry is better than Lebron. Agree?

20 game sample vs 82 game sample. But Lowry has been incredible.

And we are talking about one place (both are top 5).

In 2004 RAPM more than half the league is between LeBron and Melo.

I know half you cats failed HS math but the grasp on basic reading of analytics here is a joke.

[HOoopCityJones]

True Story: Besides his TMZ stories, John Max has never spoken a single word out of HIS mouth/keyboard

http://www.ign.com/boards/threads/le...ear.453300383/

And you have the most posts out of everyone in the 2014 class combined. This isn't including your alts. Seek help.

[RRR3]

Literally the only year Carmelo had an argument for being as good as LeBron was in their rookie year



What does that tell you, OP?

[ShaqTwizzle]

Literally the only year Carmelo had an argument for being as good as LeBron was in their rookie year



What does that tell you, OP?

No offense but why is that relevent?
We are talking specifically about their Rook seasons.

The fact that Lebron became a much better player/had a much better career means nothing here.

I doubt the thread starter was trying to convince people that Melo > Bron because he might have had a better Rookie season.

[RRR3]

No offense but why is that relevent?
We are talking specifically about their Rook seasons.

The fact that Lebron became a much better player/had a much better career means nothing here.

I doubt the thread starter was trying to convince people that Melo > Bron because he might have had a better Rookie season.

Not familiar with OP, are you? A huge portion of his posts are "hurr durr LeBron sucks"

[ShaqTwizzle]

I know half you cats failed HS math but the grasp on basic reading of analytics here is a joke.

RAPM makes sense sometimes and sometimes it gives absurd results.
Its fine to post it but don't act like because RAPM says something it HAS to be true.

It is not really a great (this guy > that guy) stat.

[Dragonyeuw]

20 game sample vs 82 game sample. But Lowry has been incredible.

And we are talking about one place (both are top 5).

In 2004 RAPM more than half the league is between LeBron and Melo.

I know half you cats failed HS math but the grasp on basic reading of analytics here is a joke.

And we'll revisit the topic after 82 games. And if Lowry is still 3rd best RAPM, and higher than Lebron, my point remains.

Oh, and in 2013-14, over a 82 game season, Andre Iguodola was 3rd in RAPM. Third best player? Should have been 3rd in MVP voting?

[Dragonyeuw]

RAPM makes sense sometimes and sometimes it gives absurd results.
Its fine to post it but don't act like because RAPM says something it HAS to be true.

It is not really a great (this guy > that guy) stat.

Exactly. Dude picks an advanced stat that can give just as many ridiculous conclusions as sensible ones, if it's an argument about player A versus player B.

[Chrono90]

Not that it really matters much now but I do remember that back then I felt like Melo deserved it more and the media in general was pretty split over him not winning it.

Let us take a look at the stat side.

Melo : 21.0 / 6.1 / 2.8 on .509%TS [COLOR="DarkRed"](36.5-mpg) [/COLOR]
Bron : 20.9 / 5.5 / 5.9 on .488%TS [COLOR="DarkRed"](39.5-mpg) [/COLOR]

Yeah. Close.
Don't think Lebron winning it was wrong but you really couldn't have gone wrong with either one.

Personally I think the obvious choice would have been [COLOR="DarkRed"]CO-ROY[/COLOR] with both of them winning it.

I believe they have given out the award that way before (71, 95, 00) so it makes little sense that they wouldn't have done it for that year when the race was so close.

The case was both teams were horrible teams the year before but after drafting their rookies with top picks, Melo's team made the playoffs in the stronger West.

Similar stats but Melo brought his team to the playoffs. That was the biggest argument.

But NBA was selling high on Lebron so they can't ruin his legacy.

[Dragonyeuw]

LOL please. The points, TS%, and rebounds are all very close to neglible.

The assists, however, aren't even close. Lebron doubled Carmelo in assists, and from day 1 Lebron had top 5 passing vision in the NBA while Melo was not a good passer.

Per 36:

Melo- 20.7ppg, 6.0rpg, 2.8apg

Lebron- 19.1ppg, 5.0rpg, 5.4.apg


It's only negligible because you glossed over the extra 3 minutes it took Lebron to reach a 'neglible' difference in 2 of the 3 main categories. Apples to apples, 2.6 more points and an extra rebound isn't negligible. Lebron averaging more assists is a given.

GTFOH.

[Dragonyeuw]

Literally the only year Carmelo had an argument for being as good as LeBron was in their rookie year



What does that tell you, OP?

It tells me that you missed the point of the thread. This is about their rookie seasons, not the ensuing years afterward.