The Last of Us is the best game ever made

[outbreak]

What does BioShock do that TLOU doesn't?

Got the gameplay and story right. Tlou had too many flaws, imo its sequol is going to be an all time great ince they refine it and break up the monotonous shooting. With a few tweaks tlou could have been my favourite game of its generation.....

[West-Side]

This is where I'm at. If it had come out in the mid-2000s or earlier, possibly a different story, but I'm not sure what it really adds now.



BioShock was more creative in its story/world. I thought that there was more meat to its story and underlying themes, more depth to its dialogue, concept of morality was an interesting one. The combat system was more diverse, complex, and creative with the plasmids. It was spectacular as far as atmosphere, especially for how immersive it was, not a game that I enjoyed playing late at night. Big Daddies/Little Sisters were fantastic characters and a big part of what made BioShock so memorable, even to more casual fans. It was also a multi-platform game, something that makes development and release significantly more difficult. I remember being wowed by the graphics when I first played it in a way that newer games just don't accomplish because we've become so accustomed to it.

What's more, it accomplished all of this back in 2007. BioShock was a greater achievement in 2007 than Last of Us was in 2013.

Back in 2007? You act as if it did so on a different console?
Naughty Dog have crafted arguably the two best looking games during the last generation, isn't that an achievement in itself?

You really told me nothing at all. You're telling me your opinion and comparing it to a game you never even finished. I mean; more creative, deeper dialogue, better atmosphere, more immersive?

Do me a favor and stop comparing them. You clearly have little knowledge about TLOU and have already admitted about not even finishing it. This is coming from a person that's beaten BioShock at least twice, probably more. I haven't played it in a long time but it didn't capture me the same way TLOU did. It did all those things extremely well no doubt and I have no problem with you naming it as a candidate; but to me TLOU was far more memorable.

I wanted to replay the game the next week and explore the world more. I'm not sure if you actually took the time to explore what Naughty Dog created. The letters, journals, newspaper clips, cassette's etc. All of those items made you feel hopeless and isolated from the human race. The atmosphere was extremely intense. The Hotel Basement mission was far and away scarier than anything I've encountered in BioShock. There was a ton of morality aspects to the game as well. The entire damn game had questions of morality. The very theme was all about morality; do we sacrifice the girl to save the human race? Even if the chances of the cure is slim to none?

The combat I absolutely loved. WAY better than BioShock and it's funny how you think the complete opposite. The game features a 50 some year old protagonist, so I loved how they made his movements slow. If anyone actually noticed, when you play Ellie later in the game, her movements are much more fluid and faster. I loved the fact they went that extra mile. The entire game is a work of art to me. The way you have to kneel down to open up your back pack in real time just adds to the tension of the game. You don't know when the enemy will spot you or appear so you must be cautious at all times. The way Joel moves slowly add realism.

Everything you've said is simply your opinion though. I just find it funny how you can sit there and criticize my opinion, yet are able to fairly compare two games [one of which you just admitted to never finishing].

So how exactly is the theme and dialogue of BioShock deeper and more complex? How can you actually evaluate that without finishing both games.

From my experience, the people that feel that TLOU is overrated are people who don't value that type of genre. Zelda is not the same formula as TLOU. It is an action-adventure, but it has other elements in it. Its emphasizing highly on puzzle solving and open-world environments. It adds the freedom, which makes it more like an RPG game since it has role-playing elements in it.

To me, a game with a realistic human element is really important and if they create an atmosphere that truly makes it believable to me, then it really adds significant value to me as a gamer.

You speak about the graphics as if you're more impressed by BioShock than by TLOU. I promise you it has much more to do with it being one of the newer games to come out on the PS3. TLOU quite easily smashes BioShock to pieces when it comes to graphics and detail, and please stop overrating its graphics; there were numerous games that looked as beautiful as BioShock around that time.

Heck, Uncharted 2 came out in 2009 and it quite easily surpasses it.

[Heavincent]

Bioshock blows its load before the final act. Everything after the twist is kind of crap.

TLOU had more interesting gameplay imo. The main strength of the game is how it combines story and gameplay. The pacing is masterfully done. It's not just an endless shooting gallery. There are a lot of quiet moments where you just take in the environment...these are some of the best moments in the game imo. I loved looking at the diary entries and notes you'd find. Great use of environmental storytelling. These quieter moments also made the action scenes and combat scenarios far more impactful and memorable. A lot of games get this wrong (Tomb Raider 2013, Bioshock Infinite, etc). These aren't bad games, but there's a jarring distinction between gameplay and story. It's like they are separate entities. On the other hand, TLOU weaves them together really well imo. It makes perfect sense for Joel to be a badass killer...dude has been surviving in the apocalypse for 20 years, so he knows his shit.

[Levity]

I love the last of us, but it amazes me that you guys can type encyclopedias full of praise for a game that is pretty linear compared to a lot of the other games being mentioned on here that are being discredited by you know who.

[West-Side]

I love the last of us, but it amazes me that you guys can type encyclopedias full of praise for a game that is pretty linear compared to a lot of the other games being mentioned on here that are being discredited by you know who.

There are movies that are 90 minutes long that are better than movies that are 4 hours long. The Last of Us is linear in level design (to a degree) but its intention is to immerse you in its story, not to ****ing upgrade your magic or sword skills, or walk around aimlessly to find side quests.

If that's your thing, then cool. I don't enjoy RPG games, I have a life outside my couch but please stop discrediting TLoU because it's "linear". Uncharted 2 is another linear game that the gaming world absolutely cherishes.

This always happens though; gamers who will argue endlessly about what they consider great games. At the end of the day, we will never convince each other of the contrary. I have a very specific preference in games and I simply don't see the "greatness" from other titles, the same way you guys don't see the "greatness" from story-driven [linear] games like The Last Of Us.

It really doesn't make it worse, it just means your set of metrics are different than mine, when it comes to evaluating games.

With that I'm done with this conversation, I'm exhausted now.

[Heavincent]

I love the last of us, but it amazes me that you guys can type encyclopedias full of praise for a game that is pretty linear compared to a lot of the other games being mentioned on here that are being discredited by you know who.

Yeah, it's linear, but it also has a lot of different ways to approach each encounter.

Being linear isn't necessarily bad and being open world isn't necessarily good. Would TLOU be better if it was an open world Ubisoft collectathon? **** no.

In fact, I'd say we need more tight and well paced linear games rather than Ubisoft style open world checklist games.

[outbreak]

There are movies that are 90 minutes long that are better than movies that are 4 hours long. The Last of Us is linear in level design (to a degree) but its intention is to immerse you in its story, not to ****ing upgrade your magic or sword skills, or walk around aimlessly to find side quests.

If that's your thing, then cool. I don't enjoy RPG games, I have a life outside my couch but please stop discrediting TLoU because it's "linear". Uncharted 2 is another linear game that the gaming world absolutely cherishes.

This always happens though; gamers who will argue endlessly about what they consider great games. At the end of the day, we will never convince each other of the contrary. I have a very specific preference in games and I simply don't see the "greatness" from other titles, the same way you guys don't see the "greatness" from story-driven [linear] games like The Last Of Us.

It really doesn't make it worse, it just means your set of metrics are different than mine, when it comes to evaluating games.

With that I'm done with this conversation, I'm exhausted now.

Holy shit you miss the point over and over again. Doesn't need to be an rpg. Plenty of third person games are linear but they hide it and break it up with set pieces and puzzles. Tlou doesnt do that. Its corridors after corridors leading to telegraphed shoot outs. Naughty dog themselves had said they need to address it in the future because they aren't happy with how that turned out but you want to act like its not an issue lol

[Heavincent]

Holy shit you miss the point over and over again. Doesn't need to be an rpg. Plenty of third person games are linear but they hide it and break it up with set pieces and puzzles. Tlou doesnt do that. Its corridors after corridors leading to telegraphed shoot outs. Naughty dog themselves had said they need to address it in the future because they aren't happy with how that turned out but you want to act like its not an issue lol

Um no. In fact, a lot of the gameplay mechanics of TLOU have carried over to Uncharted 4. Devs said so themselves. You can see it in this demo with the way the player organically weaves between stealth and open combat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ow2cL-pp6p8

[24-Inch_Chrome]

I have a very specific preference in games and I simply don't see the "greatness" from other titles, the same way you guys don't see the "greatness" from story-driven [linear] games like The Last Of Us.

I had a full reply typed up but this snippet sums up why you shouldn't be a part of this conversation. You're incapable of acknowledging greatness beyond your personal preferences, which basically means that any conception of greatness that you have is purely indicative of your favourite (wholly subjective) games rather than truly great games, the ones that are widely acknowledged as such.

I can (and do) appreciate story-driven, linear games. Along with several other genres. As do other posters. Don't try dismissing criticism by taking that weak escape. It's not the genre that's drawing criticism, it's your overestimation of the quality of the game.

I can look beyond what I like and understand why a game that I don't like is great. That is where we differ. I can look beyond personal preferences, you can't. Which is fine, but it's time to stop calling games "great" and start calling them what they really are, your favourites.

Keep the blinders on.

[nightprowler10]

For me, the video in the OP perfectly summarizes why it's such a great game. I'll post the link again because I don't think anyone actually watched it and just focused on the list https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKzVwbs-lsg He puts it more elegantly than I ever could.

That was a good watch. I agree with a lot of what he said, though it seemed like something from a fan's perspective and not critical at all. He seemed to have glossed over is that the gun play was not as good as it could've been. It's been too long but I remember playing it and thinking "boy do I miss the gun play from Uncharted 2". I also feel like with TLOU ND were able to achieve a lot of what they did by making it so linear. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing at all but it's something you have to keep in mind when comparing to other games.

[West-Side]

I had a full reply typed up but this snippet sums up why you shouldn't be a part of this conversation. You're incapable of acknowledging greatness beyond your personal preferences, which basically means that any conception of greatness that you have is purely indicative of your favourite (wholly subjective) games rather than truly great games, the ones that are widely acknowledged as such.

I can (and do) appreciate story-driven, linear games. Along with several other genres. As do other posters. Don't try dismissing criticism by taking that weak escape. It's not the genre that's drawing criticism, it's your overestimation of the quality of the game.

I can look beyond what I like and understand why a game that I don't like is great. That is where we differ. I can look beyond personal preferences, you can't. Which is fine, but it's time to stop calling games "great" and start calling them what they really are, your favourites.

Keep the blinders on.

1) You admitted to never even finishing The Last Of Us.
2) I've sourced many articles explaining to you why they consider The Last of Us one of the greatest games ever developed.
3) Those people make a living writing articles and critiquing games.
4) What exactly makes your opinion more valid than theirs?
5) I've wrote my own explanation of why I think TLOU deserves such praise.

All you've done is list a bunch of games YOU consider deserve such recognition and proceeded to trash my opinion. Constantly dismissing every source I've cited or every opinion I've given. Then, you create a smoke screen and try to validate your opinion as bias free by mentioning how you "dislike" some of the games on your list.

I can look beyond personal preferences, you can't. Which is fine, but it's time to stop calling games "great" and start calling them what they really are, your favourites.

What a dipshit you are.

As an experience, The Last of Us is powerful, emotionally draining and absolutely one of the finest games of this generation.

[QUOTE]The Last of Us is a sobering conclusion to Naughty Dog

[24-Inch_Chrome]

You condemned yourself by your own hand. Not sure why you're still posting.

[West-Side]

I can (and do) appreciate story-driven, linear games. Along with several other genres. As do other posters. Don't try dismissing criticism by taking that weak escape. It's not the genre that's drawing criticism, it's your overestimation of the quality of the game.

I can look beyond what I like and understand why a game that I don't like is great. That is where we differ. I can look beyond personal preferences, you can't. Which is fine, but it's time to stop calling games "great" and start calling them what they really are, your favourites.

Keep the blinders on.

I don't even know why you're posting.
You just admitted that The Last Of Us isn't a "great" game, and earlier in this thread admitted that you've never even finished it.

Then...

BioShock was more creative in its story/world. I thought that there was more meat to its story and underlying themes, more depth to its dialogue, concept of morality was an interesting one. The combat system was more diverse, complex, and creative with the plasmids. It was spectacular as far as atmosphere, especially for how immersive it was, not a game that I enjoyed playing late at night. Big Daddies/Little Sisters were fantastic characters and a big part of what made BioShock so memorable, even to more casual fans. It was also a multi-platform game, something that makes development and release significantly more difficult. I remember being wowed by the graphics when I first played it in a way that newer games just don't accomplish because we've become so accustomed to it.

Proceeded to evaluate both games.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

Keep them blinders on.

[24-Inch_Chrome]

You're dedicating yourself to arguing an absolutely retarded perspective...but it's the internet, so you're free to do so.