Sonny Liston shoots at Muhammad Ali (Ali craps his pants)

[Rooster]

Training is one thing, but physical gifts are another. Patterson was nowhere near the physical specimen Cassius Clay was. Patterson was slow, no reach, couldn't take a punch, and no footwork..

I dunno why do you think Floyd Patterson was slow. Is it because Ali said that or because of his peek a boo style. Patterson had one of fastest handspeed for a heavyweight and quick reflexes.

[SCREWstonRockets]

One of my favorite clips ever. Could you imagine if somebody did that today? He'd be serving 25 to life or worst, dead.

[NBAplayoffs2001]

Nah it's just the chin. You can't trained his chin. Ali had a strong chin while Floyd Patterson had one of the weakest chin in boxing. This is the reason why Cus kept him away from the likes of Liston and Cleveland Williams. But Liston can be outbox if your chin holds up. He was slow, usually plant both of his feet to throw his punches but he has good timing and punch like a mule even with his jab.

I think we could have seen a different Mike Tyson though if Cus live long enough.

Yeah, Floyd Patterson suffered from a weak chin.

So I think Tyson was great from '86 to '88. '89 he was still a great fighter but noticeably lost a step. To an extent Tyson's struggles after Holyfield's first fight I think is due to the level of competition that there was in the 90s compared to the 80s. Tyson never faced fighters like Evander Holyfield.

If Tyson somehow beat Holyfield in the matchup, beat Bowe, beat Lennox, I think he would be taken more seriously by boxing historians as the GOAT (assuming he goes like 50-2 over his career, losing to Holyfield the first time and Buster Douglas).

At one point in the late 1980s, Muhammad Ali claimed (I believe) that Tyson had the chance to be the greatest fighter to ever live. Tyson's lack of support from family and friends as well as being an emotional wreck of a young man ruined his career. He gave into the demons that often destroy celebrity careers: excessive alcohol, excessive drugs, and a serous anger problem that made him seem so easy to snap especially after 1996-1997 or so.

I personally thought he looked the best physically against McNeeley. Although, I know for boxers having some extra fat on the core can help absorb blows so being all muscle that fight could possibly have negatively affected his performance. He had all the punching power and most of the physique of the 1980s BUT he lost all of Cus D'Amato's techniques which made him the youngest HW champion ever. I don't think Tyson ever becomes the GOAT but if he had a better environment to be around and some guidance, he could have been considered a top 10 boxer of all time and retire with a net worth of $500 million instead of being broke like he was.

[BlakFrankWhite]

If Liston was a fighter in today's generation he would be hero worshipped.

[iamgine]

Nah it's just the chin. You can't trained his chin. Ali had a strong chin while Floyd Patterson had one of the weakest chin in boxing. This is the reason why Cus kept him away from the likes of Liston and Cleveland Williams. But Liston can be outbox if your chin holds up. He was slow, usually plant both of his feet to throw his punches but he has good timing and punch like a mule even with his jab.

I think we could have seen a different Mike Tyson though if Cus live long enough.

I thought he kept him away cause of Sonny's connection with the mob.

[BlakFrankWhite]

I thought he kept him away cause of Sonny's connection with the mob.

Floyd was scared shitless by Liston...that's why he delayed the fight for 2 years.

And during the staredwon...Floyd kept looking at his shoes..instead of Liston...who invented the whole 'fearsome stare' which Tyson and Foreman later used

The fight lasted like 2 minutes

[iamgine]

Floyd was scared shitless by Liston...that's why he delayed the fight for 2 years.

And during the staredwon...Floyd kept looking at his shoes..instead of Liston...who invented the whole 'fearsome stare' which Tyson and Foreman later used

The fight lasted like 2 minutes

That's not true. Floyd was the one who ok the fight against everyone's advice.

[BlakFrankWhite]

That's not true. Floyd was the one who ok the fight against everyone's advice.

Still got the konocked the F out

Man, I really dislike Patterson...he hated Ali and called him Clay even after Ali beat the dogshit outta him....In 1971 (a year after Liston died) Floyd said he'd been planning t have a 3rd fight and was confident he'd have won this time around....sure, man...you couldn't last 3 minutes in your two fights with him but you'd have won..


Btw, its good too see some old school boxing fans here like yourself and Rooster......I was really into boxing and boxing history a couple of years ago.

[iamgine]

Still got the konocked the F out

Man, I really dislike Patterson...he hated Ali and called him Clay even after Ali beat the dogshit outta him....In 1971 (a year after Liston died) Floyd said he'd been planning t have a 3rd fight and was confident he'd have won this time around....sure, man...you couldn't last 3 minutes in your two fights with him but you'd have won..


Btw, its good too see some old school boxing fans here like yourself and Rooster......I was really into boxing and boxing history a couple of years ago.

That's also untrue. Most of their "battles" were only for show to get publicity. They agreed on it beforehand. Also, Floyd was badly injured before their bout and it was obvious to Ali so Ali showed kindness and just put on a show without hurting him. Floyd himself said so after the fight that he was never hit with softer punches.

[ArbitraryWater]

That wasn't real. That was from a movie scene. "The Greatest", where Ali played himself throughout most of the film. That's not even the real Sonny Liston either. That is actor Roger E. Mosley from "Magnum P.I.". Liston was dead years before this movie was made.

went totally past OP