2008 Celtics Vs 2012 Heat (both fully healthy)

[livinglegend]

that is true. he is talking about "back your man down" type of physical post play, not KG's post play which was based on jump shots.

Hibbert and Duncan gave heat the most problem because they have the physical tools to do it even though hibbert is shit. I think 2012 heat match up very well with 2008 celtics.

I'm pretty sure Lebron scored more from the post than KG did.
Do you know where I could find those stats?

[Rose'sACL]

I'm pretty sure Lebron scored more from the post than KG did.
Do you know where I could find those stats?

no idea but lebron scored pretty much all of his points in the paint in 2012 playoffs as it was his goal that season. You can read about it in a zach lowe article on grantland.

[Suguru101]

I realize the role players and other starters were worse, but neither of the championship teams came close to dominating the playoffs as the 2011 Heat did. Rolled through the first 3 rounds of the playoffs on a 12-3 run, against their most legit East playoff competition to boot, and if LeBron plays up to snuff in the Finals they beat the Mavs in 4-5 games. The 2012 & 2013 Heat were much more vulnerable during their playoff runs

This argument needs to be thrown out. "IF" LeBron plays up to snuff?

He didn't have a post game, his head wasn't in the right place. You can't just say the 2011 were better "IF" LeBron plays up to his standards, LeBron was a worse and more vulnerable player in 2011 than he was in 2012.

Also, Shane Battier, healthier Miller/Haslem, better Chalmers and having Norris Cole >>> Arroyo/Bibby/Dampier/Anthony.

Small ball also >

[livinglegend]

no idea but lebron scored pretty much all of his points in the paint in 2012 playoffs as it was his goal that season. You can read about it in a zach lowe article on grantland.

yeah, and Wade scored a lot from the post against Pacers.
They were both great from the post in 2012.
I just need stats to back up my point.
I didn't find it on bballreference, so I am done searching.

[SouBeachTalents]

This argument needs to be thrown out. "IF" LeBron plays up to snuff?

He didn't have a post game, his head wasn't in the right place. You can't just say the 2011 were better "IF" LeBron plays up to his standards, LeBron was a worse and more vulnerable player in 2011 than he was in 2012.

Also, Shane Battier, healthier Miller/Haslem, better Chalmers and having Norris Cole >>> Arroyo/Bibby/Dampier/Anthony.

Small ball also >

I don't argue that, I agree LeBron was a better player in 2012 & 2013, but if you're going to pretend LeBron didn't underperform at historic and shocking levels in the 2011 Finals, then I'm not sure what else to argue. He played like dogshit in the Finals and the Heat STILL almost won the title.

So yes, if the LeBron that was averaging 26 ppg and locking down the MVP in the first 3 rounds of the playoffs plays up to that level, or even just a notch or two below, the Heat beat the Mavs rather easily

[ArbitraryWater]

2011-2013 Heat are all pretty close.. but the value of having 2 top 3 players on one team is HUGE... and rare. Think the 2001 Lakers.
The 2001 Lakers lost 0 games until the finals, the 2011 Heat lost 3, against tougher competition (either the Bulls or Celtics were better than any 2001 West team besides LAL, Blazers had peaked the year before, Kings would peak the subsequent year, Spurs were all Duncan).

And they looked REALLY dominant against the Mavs, until they crumbled with a 15 point lead and 6 minutes left in game 2. I was so damn hopeless when I watched that live lol.. my friend was a Heat fan but more of a casual, he tried to cheer me up like 'it will be okay dude', then the comeback started and I couldn't believe it until it was over... suddenly I was the happy one lol, I took it alot more serious than he did though.

[livinglegend]

I don't argue that, I agree LeBron was a better player in 2012 & 2013, but if you're going to pretend LeBron didn't underperform at historic and shocking levels in the 2011 Finals, then I'm not sure what else to argue. He played like dogshit in the Finals and the Heat STILL almost won the title.

So yes, if the LeBron that was averaging 26 ppg and locking down the MVP in the first 3 rounds of the playoffs plays up to that level, or even just a notch or two below, the Heat beat the Mavs rather easily

Let's stick to the actual situation instead of hypotheticals.
Based on their actual play, 2012 Lebron > 2011 Lebron.
2011 Wade > 2012 Wade
2012 Bosh = 2011 Bosh
2011 role players <<<< 2012 role players

[Rose'sACL]

I don't argue that, I agree LeBron was a better player in 2012 & 2013, but if you're going to pretend LeBron didn't underperform at historic and shocking levels in the 2011 Finals, then I'm not sure what else to argue. He played like dogshit in the Finals and the Heat STILL almost won the title.

So yes, if the LeBron that was averaging 26 ppg and locking down the MVP in the first 3 rounds of the playoffs plays up to that level, or even just a notch or two below, the Heat beat the Mavs rather easily

heat would have lost in 5 games against thunder if lebron played like he played against mavs in 2011 finals.

2012 finals durant> 2011 finals dirk.

[catch24]

2008 Celtics.

How close it would be? Not entirely sure. Wade/Bosh/LeBron all healthy would be a tough trio to stop. For sure. But the Celtics' defense is one I trust - the SAME team who held Kobe, LeBron and Wade below league average efficiency.

[Rose'sACL]

2008 Celtics.

How close it would be? Not entirely sure. Wade/Bosh/LeBron all healthy would be a tough trio to stop. For sure. But the Celtics' defense is one I trust - the SAME team who held Kobe, LeBron and Wade below league average efficiency.

2012 heat's defense wasn't much worse.

[Black and White]

2012 Lebron was a better post player than KG.
Heat had more post presence with Wade and Lebron.

LeBron that year was focused on efficiency, so I don't deny that he would have probably score more, what I meant by that post was our frontcourt > the Heats.

Not going to deny though, it would be a tough series

[catch24]

2012 heat's defense wasn't much worse.

Both teams' offenses are closer than their respective defenses.

An anchor like KG in the middle...with Posey and Allen (Tony) on the wing? That's a scary trio if healthy.

[dubeta]

Give LeBron any player who can average 17+ ppg and he beats the 2008 Celtics, rather easily I must say

[livinglegend]

LeBron that year was focused on efficiency, so I don't deny that he would have probably score more, what I meant by that post was our frontcourt > the Heats.

Not going to deny though, it would be a tough series

No.
Lebron/Battier/Bosh > Pierce/Garnett/Perkins

[Rose'sACL]

Both teams' offenses are closer than their respective defenses.

An anchor like KG in the middle...with Posey and Allen (Tony) on the wing? That's a scary trio if healthy.

Actually no. their defenses are closer than you think. their offenses are also not as close as you think. Go check.