Havlicek, Bill Cunningham, Nate Archibald competed in a '73 athletics competition

[CavaliersFTW]

Had their 100 yard dash, and half mile times taken. Cool because these numbers can be compared with Wilt Chamberlain's Track and Field data to give some sort of context of what a few other NBA athletes, some such as Archibald being known for elite "quickness", and Havlicek known for elite endurance, were capable of. It should be noted these guys likely competed without much, if any preparation or training.

*EDIT* According to these links, many more NBA players also participated over the course of a few years:
http://www.thesuperstars.org/comp/74pr1.html
http://www.thesuperstars.org/comp/73final.html
http://www.thesuperstars.org/comp/75final.html
http://www.thesuperstars.org/comp/76final.html
http://www.thesuperstars.org/comp/81final.html
http://www.thesuperstars.org/comp/81world.html
http://www.thesuperstars.org/comp/75pr1.html
http://www.thesuperstars.org/comp/76pr1.html
http://www.thesuperstars.org/comp/76pr2.html
http://www.thesuperstars.org/comp/77pr3.html
http://www.thesuperstars.org/athletes/smithphil.html
http://www.thesuperstars.org/athletes/barry.html
http://www.thesuperstars.org/athletes/bing.html
http://www.thesuperstars.org/athletes/dantley.html
http://www.thesuperstars.org/athletes/havlicek.html
http://www.thesuperstars.org/athletes/mcginnis.html
http://www.thesuperstars.org/athletes/silas.html

100 yard dash (note, not the same as modern Olympics 100 meter race, slightly shorter):

10.00 Wilt Chamberlain
10.89 George McGinnis
11.15 Dave Bing
11.27 Bill Cunningham
11.30 Dave Cowens
11.36 Nate Archibald
11.38 Chet Walker
11.40 Rick Barry
11.45 Jim McMillan
11.50 Elvin Hayes
11.54 Phil Smith
11.62 John Havlicek
11.77 Phil Chenier
12.40 Adrian Dantley
12.60 Paul Silas


880 yard/half mile race (note, not the same as modern Olympics 800 meter race, slightly longer):

1:58.3 Wilt Chamberlain
2:14.9 Dave Bing
2:16.5 Jim McMillan
2:16.8 John Havlicek
2:18.7 Phil Smith
2:21.2 Nate Archibald
2:24.6 Phil Chenier
2:25.3 Dave DeBusschere
2:26.3 Dave Cowens
2:30.0 Elvin Hayes
2:32.9 Pete Maravich
2:41.9 Bill Cunningham

Chamberlain, as a runner, is just in a different class altogether than at least that small group of NBA players. And some of those guys like Archibald are less than half his size. That should give some context as to why he was considered such a freak. A giant with ridiculous size, length and strength, that also put up legitimate competitive Track and Field times one would expect out of smaller, more specialized athletes.

(click for high-res)




Also thought I'd point out I came across an article that states Wilt's playing weight throughout the 1965 season was 301lbs, up from his 292lbs the previous season (that previous season he also reported to training camp at 320lbs). It is mentioned he trimmed back down at least at the beginning of the 1966 season to 275. This is all well before his Lakers years. I hope there is not much doubt anymore as to how heavy Chamberlain generally played at, even early in his career. He was like Shaq, or LeBron in the sense that his listed weights (250 as a rookie, 275 for the rest of his career after about 3 seasons) were almost always low-balling his actual weight.

(click for high-res)

[Marchesk]

Wilt ran a 1:58 in the half, right? I was very impressed by that given that he was a seven foot basketball player. I wonder what sort of times NBA guys would put up today for those events.

Edit: oh I see, you did post that.

[dankok8]

10.00 seconds for a 100 yard dash? That's insane considering that would make him run 100 metres in well under 11 seconds. I mean I don't want to say I don't believe that but it's just so incomprehensible. Back in the mid 60's some of the greatest sprinters in the Olympics ran around 10.5 seconds in the 100 metre race. The world record was around the 10 second mark if I'm not mistaken.

[CavaliersFTW]

Wilt ran a 1:58 in the half, right? I was very impressed by that given that he was a seven foot basketball player. I wonder what sort of times NBA guys would put up today for those events.

All of his Track and Field numbers are impressive. The variety of things he did at a level that was at the very least, trainable to become competitive at a high level if it wasn't already so. Everything from his throwing events to his sprints, to his middle distance to jumping events.

He's officially the 1953 and 1955 Philadelphia city-league high jump champ, as well as the 1955 city-league shot put champ. And he went on to be the Big-7 outdoor high jump champ at KU (while placing as high as 3rd in triple jump meets), and was also the big-eight indoor high-jump champ setting the KU indoor record. His footraces he never trained for, just ran them as a freshman and messing around. They wouldn't have "won" any meets, but the fact that he ran those times without training for them is crazy. I've tracked down the newspapers for just about all of the numbers so it isn't just hear-say anymore.

[LAZERUSS]

10.00 seconds for a 100 yard dash? That's insane considering that would make him run 100 metres in well under 11 seconds. I mean I don't want to say I don't believe that but it's just so incomprehensible. Back in the mid 60's some of the greatest sprinters in the Olympics ran around 10.5 seconds in the 100 metre race. The world record was around the 10 second mark if I'm not mistaken.

I have read about a 10.9 100 in his high school. But a 10.0 100 was not close to the record at that time. Still excellent, but far from the 9.1 that Hayes had put up. BTW, a 10 sec 100 yards would likely translate to about 11.0+ in the 100 meters. Sprinters actually slow down in the 100 meters. I have read somewhere where they claim that the guy who slows down the least usually wins.

[CavaliersFTW]

I have read about a 10.9 100 in his high school. But a 10.0 100 was not close to the record at that time. Still excellent, but far from the 9.1 that Hayes had put up. BTW, a 10 sec 100 yards would likely translate to about 11.0+ in the 100 meters. Sprinters actually slow down in the 100 meters. I have read somewhere where they claim that the guy who slows down the least usually wins.

Guys with short legs might slow down in the 100 meters, I'm not sure if that's true actually, or if it'd be more accurate to state they just stop gaining speed. But traditionally, 100 meter sprinters are about 5-10 to 6-3.

Guys with long legs, like Usain Bolt, do not they are moving their absolute fastest and pulling past runners the last 40 meters. Chamberlain, most definitely qualifies as long legged. That's why his 220 and 440 time I think is relatively speaking, slightly more impressive.

Also, we've no idea if Wilt (or Cunningham, Havlicek, and Archibald for that matter) ran those on a cinder track/s or rubberized tracks. Rubberized tracks make cinder track times almost pointless to compare, because rubberized tracks are such a great improvement over cinder tracks.

[LAZERUSS]

Guys with short legs slow down in the 100 meters. Traditionally, 100 meter sprinters are about 5-10 to 6-3.

Guys with long legs, like Usain Bolt, do not they are moving their absolute fastest the last 40 meters. Chamberlain, most definitely qualifies as long legged. That's why his 220 and 440 time is relatively speaking, slightly more impressive.

Also, we've no idea if Wilt (or Cunningham, Havlicek, and Archibald for that matter) ran those on a cinder track/s or rubberized tracks. Rubberized tracks make cinder track times almost pointless to compare, because rubberized tracks are such a great improvement over cinder tracks.

Agreed on the last part. I remember reading an article on Bob Hayes' sprints in the '64 Olympics...with a pair of borrowed shoes, and on a track that resembled a plowed field.

[dankok8]

Runners most certainly don't slow down much in the 100 m race. In fact if you compare World Records for the 100 m (9.58 s) and 200 m (19.19 s) races you'll find that the runner's average speed is about the same for both races. The initial acceleration phase (the first 20 or 30 m) really hurts the time. Afterwards the runners barely slow down from their full speed even down the stretch of a 200m race.

A guy who runs 100 yards (91.44m) in 10.00 seconds will easily run under 11 seconds for 100 m. At the end of the race sprinters easily run at 42+ km/h which is 12+ m/s. That would make Wilt's time for 100 m about 10.7 seconds which is just bat shit insane. The World record back then was 10.1 seconds and Olympics sprinters were running ~10.5...

[LAZERUSS]

Runners most certainly don't slow down much in the 100 m race. In fact if you compare World Records for the 100 m (9.58 s) and 200 m (19.19 s) races you'll find that the runner's average speed is about the same for both races. The initial acceleration phase (the first 20 or 30 m) really hurts the time. Afterwards the runners barely slow down from their full speed even down the stretch of a 200m race.

A guy who runs 100 yards (91.44m) in 10.00 seconds will easily run under 11 seconds for 100 m. At the end of the race sprinters easily run at 42+ km/h which is 12+ m/s. That would make Wilt's time for 100 m about 10.7 seconds which is just bat shit insane. The World record back then was 10.1 seconds and Olympics sprinters were running ~10.5...

Not sure on that...

Hayes ran a legal 9.1 100 yards in 1964, and then a wind-aided 9.91 100 meters in the Olympics. In 1968 Jim Hines set the 100 meter record with a 9.95.

[dankok8]

Not sure on that...

Hayes ran a legal 9.1 100 yards in 1964, and then a wind-aided 9.91 100 meters in the Olympics. In 1968 Jim Hines set the 100 meter record with a 9.95.

Isn't Wilt's track and field time from his early days in Kansas though? Circa 1957 or so. Back then the World record was 10.1 seconds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s...rd_progression

[CavaliersFTW]

Runners most certainly don't slow down much in the 100 m race. In fact if you compare World Records for the 100 m (9.58 s) and 200 m (19.19 s) races you'll find that the runner's average speed is about the same for both races. The initial acceleration phase (the first 20 or 30 m) really hurts the time. Afterwards the runners barely slow down from their full speed even down the stretch of a 200m race.

A guy who runs 100 yards (91.44m) in 10.00 seconds will easily run under 11 seconds for 100 m. At the end of the race sprinters easily run at 42+ km/h which is 12+ m/s. That would make Wilt's time for 100 m about 10.7 seconds which is just bat shit insane. The World record back then was 10.1 seconds and Olympics sprinters were running ~10.5...

Bat shit insane but for the rest of his numbers thrown around, it would only make sense. The rest of his running numbers are all pretty bat shit insane for what his KU teammates/coaches describe as a guy who basically would just spend his days of Track and Field practice messing around with other events after his High Jump sessions. Guys who are specialized physical specimens, training for several years in their disciplines, like Pete Orr for example, pulled a 47.1 440 at KU Relays that year. Wilt, never training for it at all strides it in practice (that's a painful distance to run to begin with, I ALWAYS puked running the similar but slightly shorter 400 meter) pulls a ****ing 48.9.

If I was a specialized athlete who trained for several years straight, and saw some giant man a foot taller than me run it in nearly the same time without training, I'd be dumbfounded.

That's a race about 18 feet longer than a 400 meter. I watched guys in districts Track and Field throughout high school who cracked 50, they were all fast as ****, and they ran it in spikes and speed suits on rubberized tracks and most went on to run for some colleges after high school. That's rarified speed to be gifted with, regardless of being 7 feet tall.

[CavaliersFTW]

Isn't Wilt's track and field time from his early days in Kansas though? Circa 1957 or so. Back then the World record was 10.1 seconds.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men%27s...rd_progression

Correct.

But the 100 meters is not the same as the 100 yard dash, the 100 yard dash is shorter Wilt's 10 flat is his alleged 100 yard time.

[CavaliersFTW]

If any of you ran Track or are familiar with it, you might find it interesting that Wilt won his two Philadelphia city-league high jump titles without running before his jumps.

He stood next to the bar, took a half step, then cleared the roughly 6 feet 2 inches or w/e his highschool winning figures were at the time.

His KU form wasn't much better, there's an article detailing how his 3 stride approach is pretty much the shortest any competitor of the time was using before their leap, and by quite a startling margin. He was high jumping big-seven/big-eight competitive heights (good enough to have placed 5th in the 1956 Olympics actually), with very crude techniques. Actually, the same article states he was even clearing 6-8 and 1/2 with this short-run-up method had his trail leg not kept raking the bar at Drake Relays, which I have on film.

[L.Kizzle]

Elgin Baylor vert reach.

[CavaliersFTW]

Elgin Baylor vert reach.