Swap Russell and Wilt's rosters from '59-60 Thru '68-69

[The JKidd Kid]

Bill Simmons is and was...FULL OF SHIT.

If you read it he makes his points based solely on statistics which show that Russells and Wilts teams were actually damn close in talent level and quotes from coaches and team mates, so no sir he is not full of shit. Simmons actually has a whole section of the book that compares Russells and Wilts teams head to head using statistics and accolades in the exact time period we're discussing. He also makes a hell of a lot better argument for Russell than you do for Wilt.

[La Frescobaldi]

You should read The Book of Basketball by Bill Simmons. It'll change everything you ever thought about Wilt and make you realize just how much of a selfish, underachieving and narcissistic player he was.

Bill Simmons lost his entire reputation as a writer with that chapter on the Russell - Chamberlain.

Not only is it some shameless propaganda, but it's the worst research I've seen in an actual book (not a website or yellow journalism magazine) in years.
I couldn't believe that chapter got past the proofreaders to be quite honest.

[Marchesk]

Wilt's 67 championship showed what was possible when you had the right team and coaching around Wilt. That team is still in conversation for the greatest ever.

And then there was the 72 Lakers with their 33 game win streak.

It could be that for all of Wilt's dominance, he had bad luck with his teams.

Even Jordan needed the right teammates and coach to come along. Imagine if he was stuck in Chicago with no Phil and no Scottie. Would we still think of him as this great winner today, or would we say that while he was an amazing talent, he wasn't a winner?

[LAZERUSS]

If you read it he makes his points based solely on statistics which show that Russells and Wilts teams were actually damn close in talent level and quotes from coaches and team mates, so no sir he is not full of shit. Simmons actually has a whole section of the book that compares Russells and Wilts teams head to head using statistics and accolades in the exact time period we're discussing. He also makes a hell of a lot better argument for Russell than you do for Wilt.

Did Simmons break down the number of SEASONS that Russell and Wilt played with their so-called "HOFers?" HELL NO. And why not? Because Russell played alongside his HOF teammates THREE TIMES longer than Wilt did with his, that's why?

Does he mention that Wilt only played with Baylor for ONE season in which both he and Baylor were healthy...and that Baylor sunk his team in the Finals in that one post-season?

Does he mention that Wilt played ONE season with ROOKIE Nate Thurmond, and that Nate played part-time, out of position, and shot horrifically because of it?

Does he mention that Russell had his post-season ass saved SIX times by SAM JONES?

http://www.celtic-nation.com/intervi...ones_page1.htm

“In the years that I played with the Celtics,” says Russell, “in terms of total basketball skills, Sam Jones was the most skillful player that I ever played with. At one point, we won a total of eight consecutive NBA championships, and six times during that run we asked Sam to take the shot that meant the season. If he didn’t hit the shot we were finished – we were going home empty-handed. He never missed.”

Oh, and Simmons claimed that Wilt was "stats-padding" the year he led the NBA in assists. Did Mr. Simmons also mention that Chamberlain led that Philly team to a runaway best record in the league that year?

Does Simmons ever bring up the FACT that Chamberlain reduced Russell's post-season numbers SIGNFICANTLY? Or that Wilt reduced Russell's FG%'s FAR more than Russell did Wilt's?

Oh and the QUOTES from peers...just laughable. He quoted West and Barry...and both RECANTED their opinions YEARS before Simmons ever wrote that piece of trash book. Why didn't he include their CURRENT opinions in his book? And how come Simmons didn't use a JOHN WOODEN quote (arguably the GOAT basketball coach of all-time)...who said that had Wilt had Russell's rosters, and Auerbach as a coach...and it would have been WILT holding all the rings.

I could go on and on...but Simmons has been exposed as a complete idiot MANY times here.

[Marchesk]

Kareem is often listed as 2nd behind MJ on the Goat list and right in front of Wilt. But Kareem without Oscar or Magic was a great player with no titles.

Hakeem after Sampson has his career limited by injuries has all those first round exits. Shaq's teams get swept out of the post season numerous times before Phil.

And then there is prime Kobe sans Shaq and pre Pau.

[Marchesk]

Does he mention that Russell had his post-season ass saved SIX times by SAM JONES?

Is Sam Jones underrated historically? Does he even get mentioned in the top 50 all-time?

[LAZERUSS]

Is Sam Jones underrated historically? Does he even get mentioned in the top 50 all-time?

He was certainly one of the greatest post-season players of all-time. Russell has 11 rings, but Sam's 10 were a major contributor to Russell's career success.

[That_Admiral]

I believe wilt would win less than 11 rings and russell would win more than 2

[Deuce Bigalow]

You should read The Book of Basketball by Bill Simmons. It'll change everything you ever thought about Wilt and make you realize just how much of a selfish, underachieving and narcissistic player he was.

"No one has any clutch stories on Chamberlain. If they existed, I'd pass them along."

- Bill Simmons

[Kvnzhangyay]

Sure Wilt would win more, but what's the point? It didn't happen

[La Frescobaldi]

"No one has any clutch stories on Chamberlain. If they existed, I'd pass them along."

- Bill Simmons

check out the Havlicek stole the ball game.

edit ~ while we're at it...... let's hear some Russell was clutch anecdotes.
Sam Jones? check.
Hondo? check.
Donny Nelson? check.
Heinsohn? check.
Sharman? Larry Siegfried? Cousy? Bailey Howell?

check.
Where's Russell tho

[Asukal]

First they brag about his stats and his physical stature. Then when it comes down to winning they make excuses about how his team sucks and that he was injured so he gets a pass. The truth is he was a mental midget who choked in big moments. He was always insecure about himself hence his tall tales. Wilt was a beta, he was never the leader like Russell was. When it comes down to a do or die moment, he couldn't rely on himself to get it done. Most overrated center of all time. To suggest that they would swap ring count if they swapped rosters is clear disrespect to the type of player Russell was.

30->22->18 = 2

[DatAsh]

I don't think either guy would do as well as the other guy actually did.

[La Frescobaldi]

I don't think either guy would do as well as the other guy actually did.

I don't either.

[LAZERUSS]

First they brag about his stats and his physical stature. Then when it comes down to winning they make excuses about how his team sucks and that he was injured so he gets a pass. The truth is he was a mental midget who choked in big moments. He was always insecure about himself hence his tall tales. Wilt was a beta, he was never the leader like Russell was. When it comes down to a do or die moment, he couldn't rely on himself to get it done. Most overrated center of all time. To suggest that they would swap ring count if they swapped rosters is clear disrespect to the type of player Russell was.

30->22->18 = 2

Wilt was ONLY able to rely upon himself to get it done.

23 MUST WIN post-season games...

Wilt's numbers in those 23 games...13 of which came against HOF starting centers.

12-11 W-L record

31.1 ppg (Regular season career average was 30.1 ppg)
26.1 rpg (Regular season career average was 22.9 rpg)
3.4 apg (Regular season career average was 4.4 apg)
.540 FG% (Regular season career average was .540 FG%)


3 games of 50+ points

5 games of 40+ points (including a Finals 40+ elimination game)

13 games of 30+ points

6 games of 30+ rebounds

20 games of 20+ rebounds

GOAT