Is Durant the unanimous best player in the league?

[DMAVS41]

"Winning with clearly the most talented team in the league won't be a problem"

You discount coaching and the flawed nature of their roster. Durant and Westbrook are very talented, outside of that? Meh.

And did you forget they've been crippled by injuries the whole year and the west is more stacked than ever?

It would be a problem winning a ring with these circumstances for anyone in league history. You don't get that?

And all players have poor performances...... ALL OF THEM. You should know that being a Dirk fan.

I'm saying:

"If he's as good as some claim"

He's not that good though...so yes...it will be a problem.

Again, last year it was..."Durant is clearly better than Kobe ever was"

You know I'm not even a huge Kobe guy, but a guy clearly better than peak Kobe is a guy that is raping the league to an extent KD never has in the playoffs.

You are taking on a heavy burden asking for a unanimous KD is the best player.

Also, I didn't say he had to win. I specifically said I need to see him play great and do things that other guys don't do.

I don't think I'm asking that much for a player to reach "unanimous" best player in league status. That's like peak Shaq, MJ, and Kareem shit...Durant has not reached that level yet and I'd bet he never does to be honest.

But I don't like to pretend I can see the future.



Also, what should I understand with Dirk? Dirk never played with teams like Durant has during his prime. Never...not even close....well...the 03 Mavs are equivalent imo. And Scott Brooks is a better coach than Avery Johnson. So what should I learn? That Dirk is held to a higher standard than Durant I guess...considering all the hate Dirk got for winning over 50 games 11 straight seasons and making 3 WCF and 2 finals...and winning a championship.

All with this kind of help for his prime:

Mavs with Dirk +8.1 points per 100
Mavs without Dirk -3.8 points per 100

Thunder with Durant +6.6 points per 100
Thunder without Durant +1 points per 100

Not to mention Durant clearly has that 2nd star almost always needed to win. I know there have been some bad breaks...it's why I don't sit here and claim Durant should have 3 titles or something.

But lets tap the brakes a little on this stuff and remember the kind of standards players like Dirk and Kobe and Lebron were held to in their primes.

Seriously...I don't know if you were a big NBA fan back in 07...but if you were....you'd know Durant's Memphis series through 5 games was actually worse than Dirk's against the Warriors. The only difference was that the Thunder didn't go down 3-1 like the Mavs did. 3-1 is death against a team as good or better.

And it seems Durant has been given a pass for that because of having Reggie Jackson bail him out. Durant literally has 2 of the most improbable wins for superstar in playoff history last year. I can't remember the specifics but only like 17 times had a team won a game with a player shooting as poorly as Durant did.

Again...if Dirk played his entire prime with guys like WB and Ibaka...I'd have held him to a higher standard. Just me though...

[JT123]

Because it's the same team with the same expectations.

They've been riddled with injuries too and of course beating the Bobcats, Nets, and Pacers is NOT close to beating Memphis and LAC and taking the Spurs to 6, without our third option for 2 games.

Lebron was without his 3rd option for NINE playoff games in 2012 you stupid hick.
Point is some players step up when things don't go perfectly, while others fold. Guess we know which category Durant belongs in.

[Budadiiii]

I'm saying:

"If he's as good as some claim"

He's not that good though...so yes...it will be a problem.

Again, last year it was..."Durant is clearly better than Kobe ever was"

You know I'm not even a huge Kobe guy, but a guy clearly better than peak Kobe is a guy that is raping the league to an extent KD never has in the playoffs.

You are taking on a heavy burden asking for a unanimous KD is the best player.

Also, I didn't say he had to win. I specifically said I need to see him play great and do things that other guys don't do.

I don't think I'm asking that much for a player to reach "unanimous" best player in league status. That's like peak Shaq, MJ, and Kareem shit...Durant has not reached that level yet and I'd bet he never does to be honest.

But I don't like to pretend I can see the future.

When did Kobe ever have a run like KD in 2012? 3 game winners. Beat 3 former champions and dropped 31 on 55% in the finals.

Kobe would never win a ring with this team. NEVER. He's a 44% shooter. He won because he had Shaq and Pau. Come on dude.

Durant last year in the regular season is better than Kobe ever was too so IT IS PERFECTLY FAIR TO SAY HE IS BETTER THAN KOBE EVER WAS.... BECAUSE HE IS.

You're holding on to Kobe's 5 rings as an angle to say Kobe is better, or that Durant isn't there yet. Aren't you a stats guy? Durant last year is better than Kobe ever was and that was the argument last year. Still true. Nothing has changed.

[Roundball_Rock]

Because it's the same team with the same expectations.

They've been riddled with injuries too and of course beating the Bobcats, Nets, and Pacers is NOT close to beating Memphis and LAC and taking the Spurs to 6, without our third option for 2 games.

Every team has had major injuries 30 games into the season. The difference between good teams, which is what Miami was for 4 years, and average teams, which is what Miami is today, is they can manage to sustain a substantial level of play through injuries. Look at Miami's record from 2011-2014 in games LeBron missed. It portended exactly what we are seeing in 2015: 0.400-0.500 basketball from them.

No team has exactly the same roster on a year-over-year basis. The major change the Heat had was losing LeBron and replacing him with Deng, a good but not great player.

Yes, the Western road last year was much tougher but nonetheless it is clear LeBron elevated an average team to a far higher level last season.

At some point, though, when do the excuses for Durant end? If you are the best or second best player and the third/fourth/fifth best player also plays on your team how much more do you need to win? He also has Ibaka and previously had Harden.

[Budadiiii]

Every team has had major injuries 30 games into the season. The difference between good teams, which is what Miami was for 4 years, and average teams, which is what Miami is today, is they can manage to sustain a substantial level of play through injuries. Look at Miami's record from 2011-2014 in games LeBron missed. It portended exactly what we are seeing in 2015: 0.400-0.500 basketball from them.

No team has exactly the same roster on a year-over-year basis. The major change the Heat had was losing LeBron and replacing him with Deng, a good but not great player.

Yes, the Western road last year was much tougher but nonetheless it is clear LeBron elevated an average team to a far higher level last season.

At some point, though, when do the excuses for Durant end? If you are the best or second best player and the third/fourth/fifth best player also plays on your team how much more do you need to win? He also has Ibaka and previously had Harden.

And look at Thunder record without Durant and injuries.

Elevated his team against the Bobcats and Nets. Tell me more.

Westbrook being out in 2013 and having Scott Brooks and no post player who can score aren't legit excuses? He's 26. Relax. The rings will come and they'll be more impressive than Magic's, Bird's, Jordan's, Kobe's and especially Lebron's.

[Roundball_Rock]

You are setting up straw men. What I disputed was your assertion that the Heat making the Finals last year with LeBron was not impressive. I am not disputing Durant's value to OKC. It is not about the Nets and Bobcats but the total record. They went 54-28. They may not even win 35 games this year.

Westbrook was arguably OKC's best player in the playoffs last year btw.

[DMAVS41]

When did Kobe ever have a run like KD in 2012? 3 game winners. Beat 3 former champions and dropped 31 on 55% in the finals.

Kobe would never win a ring with this team. NEVER. He's a 44% shooter. He won because he had Shaq and Pau. Come on dude.

Durant last year in the regular season is better than Kobe ever was too so IT IS PERFECTLY FAIR TO SAY HE IS BETTER THAN KOBE EVER WAS.... BECAUSE HE IS.

You're holding on to Kobe's 5 rings as an angle to say Kobe is better, or that Durant isn't there yet. Aren't you a stats guy? Durant last year is better than Kobe ever was and that was the argument last year. Still true. Nothing has changed.

Dude. Westbrook is better than Pau. GTFO with this shit...

And no...it's not about the winning. It's about valuing Kobe as a player. He's better than you are giving him credit for acting like Durant has done enough to surpass Kobe as a player.

This is the exact shit I'm talking about.

I don't even ****ing like Kobe as a player as most and I'm saying this. And I like Durant dude.

That should give you an idea of where your head is.

Nobody gives a shit about the regular season dude. Especially when Durant did what he did last year in the playoffs. My god...I'm so god damn sick of you ****ers putting so much emphasis on what these players do playing the bottom 20 teams in the league when nobody...and I mean nobody...is playing like they do in the playoffs.

Kobe Bryant at his best has proven shit Durant hasn't at this point.

Part of being great at basketball is getting the most out of your teammates....you people think it's all shooting, passing, and dribbling. The game is so much more complicated than that.

[Budadiiii]

You are setting up straw men. What I disputed was your assertion that the Heat making the Finals last year with LeBron was not impressive. I am not disputing Durant's value to OKC. It is not about the Nets and Bobcats but the total record. They went 54-28. They may not even win 35 games this year.

Westbrook was arguably OKC's best player in the playoffs last year btw.

Durant without Westbrook went 23-11 IN THE WEST. More impressive. Much better stats too. Actually some of the best ever in that stretch.

I'm saying his season last year was not as impressive as Durant's. You don't think Durant makes the finals with that Heat team? They'd win over 60 games in the East and easily make the finals.

[Roundball_Rock]

Yes, Durant on the Heat would have also made the Finals and 23-11 without Westbrook was impressive. Keep in mind, though, as JT noted, LeBron has gotten it done in the playoffs without Bosh, including as deep as the ECF. Whenever Durant has lost either Ibaka or Westbrook in the playoffs OKC promptly has folded.

The more interesting question to me is what LeBron would have been able to do on OKC from 2011-2014.

[Budadiiii]

Dude. Westbrook is better than Pau. GTFO with this shit...

And no...it's not about the winning. It's about valuing Kobe as a player. He's better than you are giving him credit for acting like Durant has done enough to surpass Kobe as a player.

This is the exact shit I'm talking about.

I don't even ****ing like Kobe as a player as most and I'm saying this. And I like Durant dude.

That should give you an idea of where your head is.

Nobody gives a shit about the regular season dude. Especially when Durant did what he did last year in the playoffs. My god...I'm so god damn sick of you ****ers putting so much emphasis on what these players do playing the bottom 20 teams in the league when nobody...and I mean nobody...is playing like they do in the playoffs.

Kobe Bryant at his best has proven shit Durant hasn't at this point.

Part of being great at basketball is getting the most out of your teammates....you people think it's all shooting, passing, and dribbling. The game is so much more complicated than that.

You don't know basketball if you take Westbrook over 2009-2010 Pau Gasol.

You just don't. Durant has better regular season and post season that Kobe ever had. That means his peak is better than Kobe's. Whoa!

I'd love to see how Kobe/Westbrook would fair in the playoffs. Two 40% shooters and no one to clean up their bricks like Pau did.

What has Kobe proved? He can shoot 40% and still win? LMAO.

[Budadiiii]

Yes, Durant on the Heat would have also made the Finals and 23-11 without Westbrook was impressive. Keep in mind, though, as JT noted, LeBron has gotten it done in the playoffs without Bosh, including as deep as the ECF. Whenever Durant has lost either Ibaka or Westbrook in the playoffs OKC promptly has folded.

The more interesting question to me is what LeBron would have been able to do on OKC from 2011-2014.

Did it without Bosh against......who?

Is there not a difference between losing Westbrook against the Grizz and getting absolutely NO HELP from anybody? LeBron got help without Bosh.

I don't think LeBron wins any rings on OKC. And we're comparing LeBron supposedly at his best against 25 year old Durant. Hmmm.

[DMAVS41]

You don't know basketball if you take Westbrook over 2009-2010 Pau Gasol.

You just don't. Durant has better regular season and post season that Kobe ever had. That means his peak is better than Kobe's. Whoa!

I'd love to see how Kobe/Westbrook would fair in the playoffs. Two 40% shooters and no one to clean up their bricks like Pau did.

What has Kobe proved? He can shoot 40% and still win? LMAO.

I agree Durant has had a better regular season than Kobe...I don't think he has a better playoffs.

Well...we are at an impasse. Because I think someone doesn't know basketball for shit if they think Pau is better than Westbrook.

I'm actually a stats guy, but some of you guys take it way too far. Basketball is not just that.

This is the same shit I had to say last year...can't believe I'm repping Kobe this much.

God how I wish we could watch Durant play with Fisher/Pau/Odom...watching him get pushed off his spots by single coverage. Who is making all those plays when Durant can't even get the ball and doesn't have the handle to put it on the floor?

Westbrook on the Thunder is easily the most underappreciated player of this era. He makes so much work for the Thunder...

[navy]

Literally no excuses. Best two players in the league and the number 1 defense?

He caught a "break" with Ibaka being injured. Although, let's be honest no other player would get that pass for a player that return in the same series.
Cant keep scapegoating Scott Brooks either.

[Budadiiii]

I agree Durant has had a better regular season than Kobe...I don't think he has a better playoffs.

Well...we are at an impasse. Because I think someone doesn't know basketball for shit if they think Pau is better than Westbrook.

I'm actually a stats guy, but some of you guys take it way too far. Basketball is not just that.

This is the same shit I had to say last year...can't believe I'm repping Kobe this much.

Let's put it this way for you.... put Westbrook on the Lakers for Pau and they don't win those rings. Saying otherwise would be idiotic. Dumb.

"well we don't know what would happen" Yes we do. They wouldn't win, period.

And Kobe faced WEAK competition in the finals. The 2012 Heat is one of the best teams ever. Dwight led Magic? Old ass Celtics? 2012 Thunder would wipe the ****ing floor with those teams and you know it.

Context. Context. Context. Kobe shot 6-24 in a game 7 and they still won. And let's not get started on Scott Brooks and Phil Jackson.

[Joyner82reload]

Where the hell is this myth that Durant crumbles in the playoffs coming from? Aside from his first ever playoff series, Durant's playoff averages
29.2 ppg 8.3 rpg and 4.0 apg on 59.4 TS%
are equal to his regular season stats over that timeframe
29.0 ppg 7.5 rpg and 4.1 apg on 62.2 TS%

Oh man, his efficiency went down 2.8%. Who the hell doesn't shoot slightly worse in the playoffs than in the regular season. Durant being a poor playoff performer is an absolute joke, he's the #1 active playoff scorer in the NBA by more than a full point over LeBron. Oh and he's also the NBA's most efficient 25+ ppg playoff scorer in LEAGUE HISTORY