Where would you have ranked Michael Jordan had he not returned to NBA after 1992/93?

[The Red Viper]

Many of us, including me, consider Michael Jordan as the best Basketball player of all time. However, one thing that always fascinated me was, how would have the basketball fraternity rated Michael Jordan had he not returned to the NBA after the 1992/93? Lets consider he never makes a comeback in 1995, where would you rank him amongst the all-time greats?

[Beastmode88]

Which teams wins during the 2nd 3peat?

[SamuraiSWISH]

He'd still be GOAT. Based on performance. And the ABSURD way he elevated his game during the most challenging, difficult, and intense part of the season.

If he didn't play from '96 - '96 his career averages would be even more absurd, and he'd have an even bigger built in "what if" aspect to his career after all he had already accomplished if he stayed retired.

Dude had a memorial statue outside an arena his profits built after only 8 seasons. First three peat since Russell's uber stacked 60's Celtics run. Jordan is the greatest ball player to ever lace them up. No questions asked.

[The Red Viper]

He'd still be GOAT. Based on performance. And the ABSURD way he elevated his game during the most challenging, difficult, and intense part of the season.

If he didn't play from '96 - '96 his career averages would be even more absurd, and he'd have an even bigger built in "what if" aspect to his career after all he had already accomplished if he stayed retired.

Dude had a memorial statue outside an arena his profits built after only 8 seasons. First three peat since Russell's uber stacked 60's Celtics run. Jordan is the greatest ball player to ever lace them up. No questions asked.

In terms of sheer ability, definitely. But do you think his legacy would have been the same with three rings instead of six? I agree about the "what if" factor though.

[The Red Viper]

Which teams wins during the 2nd 3peat?

Orlando Magic in 1995-96.
Utah Jazz in 1996-97.
Probably Indiana Pacers or Utah Jazz again in 1997-98.

Anyway, thats a different debate altogether.

[SamuraiSWISH]

In terms of sheer ability, definitely. But do you think his legacy would have been the same with three rings instead of six? I agree about the "what if" factor though.

People were calling MJ GOAT after the '91 championship and as soon as the '92 regular season.

Then he repeated, got another MVP, then three peated. Plus 2x more Finals MVPs. Put up dizzying NBA playoff, and Finals performances. The guy simply SODOMIZED any elite contemporary anyone dare compare him to ... Magic, Drexler, Barkley ... the whole league was absolutely shook, and terrified of the guy.

Dropped 54 in the playoffs on one of the top five defenses ever, and the most physically imposing thug, bully squad ever.

Former legends acknowledged his greatnesss calling him GOAT. Like West, and Bird. Some were even frightened by him, hiding it with blatant insecurity. That loser Oscar Robertson is still scared shitless of the player who made baggy shorts, and Nikes cool.

[fpliii]

Don't have rankings written down anywhere, but it drops him a bit. Going from 11 high quality seasons to 8 is a detriment (look how much people knock Bird who had 9 great years before the injury, though MJ was the superior player).

That being said, his best seasons all occurred before his first retirement, so if people have him with the GOAT peak or prime, that'd still have to apply.

Orlando Magic in 1995-96.
Utah Jazz in 1996-97.
Probably Indiana Pacers or Utah Jazz again in 1997-98.

Anyway, thats a different debate altogether.

That could change how people think of Penny in retrospect. I wonder how much it helps out Shaq?

[The Red Viper]

People were calling MJ GOAT after the '91 championship and as soon as the '92 regular season.

Then he repeated, got another MVP, then three peated. Plus 2x more Finals MVPs. Put up dizzying NBA playoff, and Finals performances. The guy simply SODOMIZED any elite contemporary anyone dare compare him to ... Magic, Drexler, Barkley ... the whole league was absolutely shook, and terrified of the guy.

Dropped 54 on one of the top five defenses ever, and the most physically imposing thug, bully squad ever.

Former legends acknowledged his greatnesss. Some were even frightened by him, hiding it with insecurity. That loser Oscar Robertson is still scared shitless of the player who made baggy shorts, and Nikes cool.

Personally, I would have still considered him the greatest of all time but I do think, it would have been much more debatable then with Magic and Bird.

[The Red Viper]

Don't have rankings written down anywhere, but it drops him a bit. Going from 11 high quality seasons to 8 is a detriment (look how much people knock Bird who had 9 great years before the injury, though MJ was the superior player).

That being said, his best seasons all occurred before his first retirement, so if people have him with the GOAT peak or prime, that'd still have to apply.


That could change how people think of Penny in retrospect. I wonder how much it helps out Shaq?

For those like me, who don't consider Shaq amongst the top three centers of all time, I would have had him in top three if not consider him the best!

[CavaliersFTW]

Havlicek level [COLOR="White"]relax sonny[/COLOR]

[Micku]

He'll still be ranked pretty highly. In 1993, people already labeled him the GOAT. He already accomplish a lot and displayed GOAT level of performance. He was already ranked be higher than Magic and Bird.

I think you'll see more arguments tho. People would say MJ could've win more rings if he stick around (they would've been right) and other people would consider this a negative because his career was short. You might see more people talk about other players more like Kareem and etc. People also would've boast up Kobe too since he would've had more rings than MJ.

I also think more people would say that his teams wouldn't be able to beat the Magic due to the gap in the talent and Shaq was a mismatch, so there will be more debates in which team is the best. And if Shaq would've won in 96, then that would've changed his legacy a bit. Same with Karl Malone too. He would've looked a bit differently.

So, I think he would've been up there, but there will be more arguments for the GOAT spots than there are now.

[julizaver]

Many of us, including me, consider Michael Jordan as the best Basketball player of all time. However, one thing that always fascinated me was, how would have the basketball fraternity rated Michael Jordan had he not returned to the NBA after the 1992/93? Lets consider he never makes a comeback in 1995, where would you rank him amongst the all-time greats?

Even without second 3pt he had a case for GOAT. His latest comeback with Wizzards was useless for me. I hope he did it for the joy of the game and competitive hunger. At least it shows two things that MJ could still play the game at 40 and it gave a chance for the young fans to see him play. Personally I will remembered him for his Bulls days, not the meaningless Wizards period.

[Psileas]

Contending for #4 with Magic probably. Wilt's, Russell's and Kareem's careers would have been too much to overcome.
For the ones who claim they'd still have him 1st career wise (and I know there are plently, which is why, according to many, Jordan, during his 2nd 3peat was "running by himself", with which I also disagree), like I've said in a past post, think of it this way: He'd have to literally accomplish things at a rate more than twice as fast as Kareem thoughout his whole career, and that's including Jordan's short '86 season (so, that's closer to having to accomplish 150% faster) and, at least in their first respective seasons, he wasn't even accomplishing "only" just as much, let alone much more. He'd also have to accomplish at a rate more than 50% faster than a guy who was leading his teams to one championship after another and more than 50% faster than a guy who was winning like 3 statistical titles per season and in the end finished with just 1 title less than 1st 3-peat Jordan. At least a non-homer would find it exceedingly difficult to leave aside such levels of dominance and durability in favor of someone with only 9 seasons under his belt.

[Marchesk]

Orlando Magic in 1995-96.
Utah Jazz in 1996-97.
Probably Indiana Pacers or Utah Jazz again in 1997-98.

Anyway, thats a different debate altogether.

Seattle was the second best team in 95/96. And didn't Grant get hurt when the Magic got swept by the Bulls?

[Marchesk]

MJ's statline pre-first retirement:

32.3/6.3/5.9 on 51.1% with 2.7 steals and 1 blocks

That's like averaging Kevin Durant's MVP season for 9 years with 3 titles, and better defense (granted, one season he barely played due to injury).