Quote I read on Reddit regarding MJ vs Kobe

[andgar923]

This is to a reply regarding eras.

[QUOTE][

[Prometheus]

It's a great point. Jordan was SO much better at attacking the basket. Not even close now that I think about it.

[Im so nba'd out]

smh i missed out seeing jordan in his prime since i wasn't born yet but i will tell my children's children about what i seen in this thread today.Truly the goat of goats 5 star'd plus bookmarked just amazing...

[andgar923]

Looking at the all time leaders in block shots, the list is dominated by players from the 80s and 90s.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...lk_season.html

NOTE: Im not sure when the block was used as a stat. There was also a period in which teams signed players that were known as 'enforcers' whose main job was to protect the rim. They didn't get many touches offensively, but they were there to be tough and physical.

[SexSymbol]

Yup, Kobe's slashing is the worst part of his offensive game, and it still was always better than league average

[Dr.J4ever]

Sometimes it can be complex to judge eras and subtle changes, but yes, there is some truth to more crowded lanes back in the day simply because there were more players posting up or trying to get a shot as close to the rim as possible. Defenders had to stick by their man, since zones were not allowed because of the ILLEGAL DEFENSE RULE . There was far less 3 point shooting especially in the 80s which didn't spread out offenses and defenses.

However, Coach Thibs of the Bulls, one of the NBA's best defensive minds today, still said this :


""When Jordan was playing," Chicago coach Tom Thibodeau said, "if he was isolated at 12 feet or at the elbow, you had to keep your 'big' on the weak side. There was no way you could get him across the lane. Now that you can bring your big over to the strong side, elbow isolations become jump-shot plays. And there's usually four shooters on the floor, at a minimum, and some teams have five."

[andgar923]

Sometimes it can be complex to judge eras and subtle changes, but yes, there is some truth to more crowded lanes back in the day simply because there were more players posting up or trying to get a shot as close to the rim as possible. Defenders had to stick by their man, since zones were not allowed because of the ILLEGAL DEFENSE RULE . There was far less 3 point shooting especially in the 80s which didn't spread out offenses and defenses.

However, Coach Thibs of the Bulls, one of the NBA's best defensive minds today, still said this :


""When Jordan was playing," Chicago coach Tom Thibodeau said, "if he was isolated at 12 feet or at the elbow, you had to keep your 'big' on the weak side. There was no way you could get him across the lane. Now that you can bring your big over to the strong side, elbow isolations become jump-shot plays. And there's usually four shooters on the floor, at a minimum, and some teams have five."

But the bolded has been shown to be false, since teams did it all the time, specially while guarding MJ.

Not to say it was every single possession, but it was the norm and was called just as often as a palming of the ball is called.

Teams found ways to disguise their defensive schemes.

Today's era is more rule oriented, there's rules upon rules that have changed the game to openly encourage perimeter style play.

MJ would crush today's defense and get to the lane at will. if he was able to beat two and three defenders on his way to the basket all while being bumped and hand checked , imagine just one?

MJ had to work hard just trying to get open. Watching him go through screens to get position is taxing onto itself, let alone after he actually touches the ball. Players like Durant, Wade, Bron, Melo get very little opposition trying to get the ball in the spots they want it in. Rarely do you see them go through multiple screens and run all over the court with their heads chopped off just to get to a spot to get the ball. They usually stand in the perimeter uncontested and unchallenged and they go to work. If they do go into the paint, there is little opposition compared to what MJ and others faced in the past.

I even made a vid a while back showing how even Wizards MJ got to his spots without no opposition. There was possessions in which he didn't even get touched and literally just walked to the spot he wanted to un-opposed. And this was in the early 2k era before the rules got softer.

[Dr.J4ever]

But the bolded has been shown to be false, since teams did it all the time, specially while guarding MJ.

Not to say it was every single possession, but it was the norm and was called just as often as a palming of the ball is called.

Teams found ways to disguise their defensive schemes.

Today's era is more rule oriented, there's rules upon rules that have changed the game to openly encourage perimeter style play.

MJ would crush today's defense and get to the lane at will. if he was able to beat two and three defenders on his way to the basket all while being bumped and hand checked , imagine just one?

MJ had to work hard just trying to get open. Watching him go through screens to get position is taxing onto itself, let alone after he actually touches the ball. Players like Durant, Wade, Bron, Melo get very little opposition trying to get the ball in the spots they want it in. Rarely do you see them go through multiple screens and run all over the court with their heads chopped off just to get to a spot to get the ball. They usually stand in the perimeter uncontested and unchallenged and they go to work. If they do go into the paint, there is little opposition compared to what MJ and others faced in the past.

I even made a vid a while back showing how even Wizards MJ got to his spots without no opposition. There was possessions in which he didn't even get touched and literally just walked to the spot he wanted to un-opposed. And this was in the early 2k era before the rules got softer.

I guess Coach Thibs doesn't know what the hell he is talking about then.

[navy]

I guess Coach Thibs doesn't know what the hell he is talking about then.

Amazing that people will simply dismiss one of the great defensive minds because it doesnt fit their agenda.

The dude actually creates defensive schemes for a living at the highest level. But nah man, I got youtube videos and an ISH degree. Thibs is lying.

[andgar923]

I guess Coach Thibs doesn't know what the hell he is talking about then.

Technically the rules were that.

But as I stated, they weren't strictly enforced. And just like the 'zone' was illegal in the 80s and 90s, it was still used by teams just under a different veil.

You used to see players and coaches scream "3 seconds!!!" at the refs all the time to little response. They just let them play for the most part.

[Dr.J4ever]

Amazing that people will simply dismiss one of the great defensive minds because it doesnt fit their agenda.

The dude actually creates defensive schemes for a living at the highest level. But nah man, I got youtube videos and an ISH degree. Thibs is lying.

So true.

Thibs gets paid a ton to get it right, coaching wise. If he's wrong, he's out on the streets. I would take the opinion of such a person with far more seriousness than ISH posters. Just keeping it real.

[Blue&Orange]

So true.

Thibs gets paid a ton to get it right, coaching wise. If he's wrong, he's out on the streets. I would take the opinion of such a person with far more seriousness than ISH posters. Just keeping it real.

Too bad video footage trumpets opinion

Other rule changes -- notably, simplifying defensive restrictions and shedding all the complicated "illegal defense" prohibitions other than the 3-second call -- also worked in the international players' favor.

"When Jordan was playing," Chicago coach Tom Thibodeau said, "if he was isolated at 12 feet or at the elbow, you had to keep your 'big' on the weak side. There was no way you could get him across the lane. Now that you can bring your big over to the strong side, elbow isolations become jump-shot plays. And there's usually four shooters on the floor, at a minimum, and some teams have five."

And that, American basketball purists, feeds right into the international -- and European in particular -- style of play.

So yeah rules changes that benefit the less athletic international player would hinder the player with best combination of skill\athleticism in history of the NBA. Again how dumb are you?


Oh yeah you really owned those Jordan stans with that Thibbs quote! Just ignore the stats (FACTS) brought by the op

[ralph_i_el]

But the bolded has been shown to be false, since teams did it all the time, specially while guarding MJ.

Not to say it was every single possession, but it was the norm and was called just as often as a palming of the ball is called.

Teams found ways to disguise their defensive schemes.

Today's era is more rule oriented, there's rules upon rules that have changed the game to openly encourage perimeter style play.

MJ would crush today's defense and get to the lane at will. if he was able to beat two and three defenders on his way to the basket all while being bumped and hand checked , imagine just one?

MJ had to work hard just trying to get open. Watching him go through screens to get position is taxing onto itself, let alone after he actually touches the ball. Players like Durant, Wade, Bron, Melo get very little opposition trying to get the ball in the spots they want it in. Rarely do you see them go through multiple screens and run all over the court with their heads chopped off just to get to a spot to get the ball. They usually stand in the perimeter uncontested and unchallenged and they go to work. If they do go into the paint, there is little opposition compared to what MJ and others faced in the past.

I even made a vid a while back showing how even Wizards MJ got to his spots without no opposition. There was possessions in which he didn't even get touched and literally just walked to the spot he wanted to un-opposed. And this was in the early 2k era before the rules got softer.

Why don't you call up the Bulls and tell them Thibs is wrong and you should be the coach?

[Dr.J4ever]

Too bad video footage trumpets opinion




So yeah rules changes that benefit the less athletic international player would hinder the player with best combination of skill\athleticism in history of the NBA. Again how dumb are you?


Oh yeah you really owned those Jordan stans with that Thibbs quote! Just ignore the stats (FACTS) brought by the op

It fed into the Euro/international style because from then on, after recognizing defensive schemes by these new breed of defensive coaches, NBA play would be laden with more passing, more cutting, and less iso/post up play like during early 2000s and during the 90s. This style would prove to be the more efficient way of scoring to counter defensive changes. And Euros have been playing like this for years because of full blown zones in international play.

After all, this was the intention of the new rules. Stu Jackson said this.

[Dr.J4ever]

Why don't you call up the Bulls and tell them Thibs is wrong and you should be the coach?