Today's big men

[stanlove1111]

I know there has been a lot of discussion about big men fro earlier years being better and more dominating then todays big men. There is one big reason for that and it seems like nobody ever talks about it. In the 60s and 70s for example post defense was really really weak. Centers just posted up right near the lane and called for the ball and got it whenever they wanted. Todays defenses are so much better at stopping this that it prevents a center a big man from dominating like they used to.


Just look at this game from 1970 and see what I mean. I have started paying attention to this because my son who is good at basketball watched an old game and laughed about how easy it was for a big man to get the ball close to the basket back then where todays its extremely hard, plus there was no fighting for postion back then or it was a foul. So talking about how much better centers were back then isn't exactly the case. When my son watched Jabbar he said that his hook shot would be hard to stop still but he sure as heck would be shooting it from a lot farther out and wouldn't get the ball anytime he wanted..The more I watched old games the more I am sure he is correct.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_uAJlWP0lQ

[Fire Colangelo]

Great big men from previous eras are going to be great regardless of what era they play in. They will adjust to the rules and dominate just like they did in this era.

[aau]

I know there has been a lot of discussion about big men fro earlier years being better and more dominating then todays big men. There is one big reason for that and it seems like nobody ever talks about it. In the 60s and 70s for example post defense was really really weak. Centers just posted up right near the lane and called for the ball and got it whenever they wanted. Todays defenses are so much better at stopping this that it prevents a center a big man from dominating like they used to.


Just look at this game from 1970 and see what I mean. I have started paying attention to this because my son who is good at basketball watched an old game and laughed about how easy it was for a big man to get the ball close to the basket back then where todays its extremely hard, plus there was no fighting for postion back then or it was a foul. So talking about how much better centers were back then isn't exactly the case. When my son watched Jabbar he said that his hook shot would be hard to stop still but he sure as heck would be shooting it from a lot farther out and wouldn't get the ball anytime he wanted..The more I watched old games the more I am sure he is correct.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_uAJlWP0lQ

come on stan

your son is a great player

but back in the day he would have been a
lead-foot back to the basket jump-hook
shooting big man like the rest cause
that's all the coaches would have
taught him , , it's all they knew

he's bigger and still handles the ball and
passes like a guard penetrates off the
dribble and creates his own shots
. . . . . great from 3

wasn't pigeon-holed in the least

[aau]

dup

[stanlove1111]

Great big men from previous eras are going to be great regardless of what era they play in. They will adjust to the rules and dominate just like they did in this era.

I actually hate it when people say this. There can only be so many great players in the league at once. IF everyone is great then nobody dominates..

[Fire Colangelo]

I actually hate it when people say this. There can only be so many great players in the league at once. IF everyone is great then nobody dominates..

？

what does this have to do with anything....? I'm not saying we're bring the entire all star team from the 70s to the current generation, but hypothetically if we can bring back kareem from the 70s and put him on the lakers team right now, he's gonna dominate.

just like he would if you put him on any team in the 60s, 80s, 90s, 00s, etc.

[LAZERUSS]

True post up centers are a rarity. And among the many reasons, is the fact that even seven-footers want to handle the ball and shoot treys.

Just look at the highly rated Thon Maker. In his soph high school season, he shot 48% from the field, which included a dreadful 29% from the high-school 3pt line (which is substantially less than the NBA's.)

Instead of dominating far inferior-sized players inside, he is dancing around at between the circles, and hoping that an ESPN camera catches him with a spin move and a 20 ft three.

Just deplorable.

[DaRkJaWs]

Yeah and back then perimeter players could never get into the lane with a wilt or Russell in the middle. These days they have a freeway to the paint with very little stopping them. Now that is pathetic. Wilt chamberlain turns in his grave anytime someone gets an easy hoop at the basket with nobody even vein a shot blocking threat.

[LAZERUSS]

Yeah and back then perimeter players could never get into the lane with a wilt or Russell in the middle. These days they have a freeway to the paint with very little stopping them. Now that is pathetic. Wilt chamberlain turns in his grave anytime someone gets an easy hoop at the basket with nobody even vein a shot blocking threat.

Can you imagine the 6-0 Chris Paul driving the lane on Chamberlain? If Wilt were routinely rejecting the 6-5 (6-6 in shoes), 220 lb. Oscar, he would have been blocking Paul's shots with his waist (or below.)

[Ariza4three]

I know there has been a lot of discussion about big men fro earlier years being better and more dominating then todays big men. There is one big reason for that and it seems like nobody ever talks about it. In the 60s and 70s for example post defense was really really weak. Centers just posted up right near the lane and called for the ball and got it whenever they wanted. Todays defenses are so much better at stopping this that it prevents a center a big man from dominating like they used to.


Just look at this game from 1970 and see what I mean. I have started paying attention to this because my son who is good at basketball watched an old game and laughed about how easy it was for a big man to get the ball close to the basket back then where todays its extremely hard, plus there was no fighting for postion back then or it was a foul. So talking about how much better centers were back then isn't exactly the case. When my son watched Jabbar he said that his hook shot would be hard to stop still but he sure as heck would be shooting it from a lot farther out and wouldn't get the ball anytime he wanted..The more I watched old games the more I am sure he is correct.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_uAJlWP0lQ

Your son is 100% right. Too bad posters here won't admit it.

[Fire Colangelo]

Can you imagine the 6-0 Chris Paul driving the lane on Chamberlain? If Wilt were routinely rejecting the 6-5 (6-6 in shoes), 220 lb. Oscar, he would have been blocking Paul's shots with his waist (or below.)

Idk man, Cousy was making them.

[CavaliersFTW]

Your son is 100% right. Too bad posters here won't admit it.

Validation from Jameer... OP's reputation has now officially been destroyed.

[PHILA]

would be shooting it from a lot farther out and wouldn't get the ball anytime he wanted

Part of this may be due to the lack of quality entry passers now compared to past eras. Bill Walton has said that KAJ had a strong base in the post. Players like Reed, Unseld, Chamberlain also were very strong inside but did not have the mobility and/or size to stay with him.

Below is an example of him driving across the lane right out of the low post and going into his hook shot. Unbelievable quickness for a player of that size and no need for him to faceup before the drive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BY8l0aq8CwM&t=12m34s


KAJ was at his best on the right block turning to the baseline for the hook, where he could shoot it with his right hand and protect the shot much better against the help defense. He was getting a clean look virtually every time, given that his man wouldn't be able to challenge the shot and the help defense couldn't get to it without climbing up his arm.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usDqCrm0r_w&t=3m20s

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usDqCrm0r_w&t=6m50s

Wilt chamberlain turns in his grave anytime someone gets an easy hoop at the basket with nobody even vein a shot blocking threat.

He could catch the ball right out of the air.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNw0c19DhIU&t=2m20s

[Akhenaten]

Yeah, without a doubt.

It's much easier to deny the post entry pass or make it a tough angle because of the rules, most prominently being allowed to double team off the ball. Perimetre defense is also much more active particularly when it comes to ball pressure, from what I've seen watching old games you could pretty much dribble the ball without much fear of a guy really pressing up on you or reaching in.

That back to the basket stuff is antiquated, it's a relic, today catches happen much farther away from the basket and BIGS get the ball with less time on the shot clock. Added to this when they do catch the ball, defenses are in better position to provide help. Offensive 3 seconds is also stringently officiated.

Even if a guy is a great back to basket player on say a KAJ level, running a multitude of possessions with that style is not conducive to winning in today's league. It's far too deliberate a style that in today's league is too easy to key in on, even if a guy could avg 25+ ball movement and flow would be too stunted and mucky to make is a viable way of playing offense.

Even in the days where KAJ and Wilt dominated, they won their rings when their offensive games were muted in favour of having the guards/wings orchestrating and scoring. This is even more pronounced to today.

[CoastalRyan]

It would take serious mental adjusting not just a physical one. The game has evolved tactically. Its no where near the same game it was even 15 years ago. "Sabermetrics" and the influx of how franchises go about studying film, scout opposing teams and gameplanning is miles from what these players were accustomed to.

I just don't think people understand the exponential evolution of modern day sports when they make the argument about past players being able to compete in current times.

I'm not saying there weren't dynamic players back in the day but there was way more of an emphasis on redundancy in a successful players game whereas that kind of approach couldn't possibly be exploited in the ever changing tactical world of today's basketball.