From Nov 2014: People still think LeBron > Bird/Pippen?

[bizil]

When it comes to Bird's defense, he was VERY GOOD defending PF's. The thing is Boston's glory days came with Bird at SF. Lineup up at SF, he's not nearly as good defending SF's on an island. And this is when u had to either double team a superstar, switch the matchup, or take your medicine on an island. So historically, Bird is classified as a SF even though he played lots of PF.

So in the defensive context, people think of him defending the premier SF's. Or having to switch off and let McHale take a crack at those guys. But once again, Bird was a very good defender at PF, so we can't forget that either.

[SouBeachTalents]

interesting. who are the only players to have better peaks than lebron, IYO?

IMO, I'd say Wilt, Shaq, Jordan, Bird, and Magic

[mehyaM24]

IMO, I'd say Wilt, Shaq, Jordan, Bird, and Magic

i cant cosign with wilt because of his ordinary playoff success (given that blocks and steals weren't recorded in that era is something to give credence to but still). the others are definitely arguable.

magic/bird/shaq/jordan/lebron = all interchangeable and in the same tier for me. i would say 2000 shaq is the greatest player i ever saw though.

[tpols]

IMO, I'd say Wilt, Shaq, Jordan, Bird, and Magic

No KAJ? 2003 Duncan is certainly arguable.

[SouBeachTalents]

No KAJ? 2003 Duncan is certainly arguable.

Well the 5 I listed are ones I'd put ahead of LeBron, others like Duncan, Hakeem, and Kareem are definitely arguable as well

[SHAQisGOAT]

No KAJ? 2003 Duncan is certainly arguable.

Top5 peaks:

Shaq
MJ
Kareem
Wilt
Bird

[bizil]

Top5 peaks:

Shaq
MJ
Kareem
Wilt
Bird

I think that's a great top five peak. It goes to show how dominant a great alpha center can truly be. Shaq was really the last one we had. Duncan by all rights is an alpha dog center BUT he's listed at PF. That's the one thing I regret in today's game. The PF spot is thriving but the center position disappoints me.

[3ball]

given lebron's time in miami...

match up any all-time great with another all-time great and a top 2 PF, and they will do what lebron did in miami - lebron's team-hopping for the best talent DOES hurt his legacy - all his championships are the result of team-hopping.

typical Bron haters crusading again.

so pointing out lebron's flaws translates to "haters crusading" in lebron-stan talk.

What more are we basing it on, because Bron has him beat everywhere aside from clutch play.

and rebounding... and leadership... and defending power forwards and banging inside... and being a more versatile scorer that could adjust to teammates and opposition better.

btw, clutch is huge - and given that most things between lebron and bird are close, clutch definitely puts Bird over the top - clutch is that important.

[aj1987]

Pride in the form of leadership actually does and can make teammates perform better. The heat looked dead and unmotivated in the finals last year.. there was no commradery, not even a single rally. Its as if lebron wasnt even speaking in huddles and daydreaming about going back to cleveland.

I still don't see how that helps in making Wade healthier and Bosh play in the post.

Bird played in the boston Garden where it routinely got hotter in their building than what the temperature was in game 1 of last year in San Antonio. Guys dying on the court.. Bird could withstand some adversity, and tougher conditions.. he wouldnt be collapsing on the court in the 4th quarter because the air conditioning levels didnt quite meet his usual standards.

He cramped up. Happens to players. Injuries are a part of the game. Even with PEAK Bird on the '14 Heat, the Spurs would've embarrassed them.

You have to be kidding right.. ? prime larry bird, Chris bosh, and dwayne wade losing to the at the time struggling, derrick rose led chicago bulls.

Rose struggled because of LeBron's defense. Wade was terrible in that series as well. As I said, if they get past the Bulls, they're winning for sure in '11. Bird wouldn't have choked as bas as LeBron did.

[Paul George 24]

LeBron > Pippen

pippen defence >>>>>>>>>>>>> lebron

[Paul George 24]

i cant cosign with wilt because of his ordinary playoff success (given that blocks and steals weren't recorded in that era is something to give credence to but still). the others are definitely arguable.

magic/bird/shaq/jordan/lebron = all interchangeable and in the same tier for me. i would say 2000 shaq is the greatest player i ever saw though.

lebron is same tier as jordan nice joke
but I haven't seen Jordan ever chock like lebron ever did and Jordan wouyld never team up with superstars to get a ring

[Paul George 24]

I still don't see how that helps in making Wade healthier and Bosh play in the post.





He cramped up. Happens to players. Injuries are a part of the game. Even with PEAK Bird on the '14 Heat, the Spurs would've embarrassed them.


Rose struggled because of LeBron's defense. Wade was terrible in that series as well. As I said, if they get past the Bulls, they're winning for sure in '11. Bird wouldn't have choked as bas as LeBron did.

DEFINTELY WRONG,LEBRON NEVER DEFENCE ROSE 1 ON 1,WITHOUT WADE DOUBLE ROSE,LEBRON WILL NOT ABLE TO STOP ROSE LEBRON IS ALWAYS A POOR MAN DEFENDER

[plowking]

The bold is simply not true. I mean...I'm fine with someone saying peak Lebron was better, and I might agree, but this whole "undoubtedly" notion is total bullshit.

Peak/Prime Bird was a ****ing artist on the basketball court.

He isn't a way better basketball player or anything, but it is clear. Bron was the best offensive player in the league, and the best defensive wing in the league at one point. Put up a fantastic finals and playoffs in a dominating fashion, more so than Bird ever did.

What am I missing? Why is Bird ranked higher than Bron?

[3ball]

Even with PEAK Bird on the '14 Heat, the Spurs would've embarrassed them.

horseshit... you don't know that.

[Paul George 24]

He isn't a way better basketball player or anything, but it is clear. Bron was the best offensive player in the league, and the best defensive wing in the league at one point. Put up a fantastic finals and playoffs in a dominating fashion, more so than Bird ever did.

What am I missing? Why is Bird ranked higher than Bron?

MORE RINGS THAN BRON,NUFF.SAID