From Nov 2014: People still think LeBron > Bird/Pippen?

[aj1987]

not sure why you got mad then, when i pointed out that Mchale would never have made the HOF and his career would have been hurt playing lebron-ball.

Because 2 rings are going to hurt Bosh's chances of getting into the HOF, right?

It's not about the numbers....and I never said Bosh should average the same. It's about the style of play.

Why are you complaining about it, when it's extremely effective? You said it yourself. It's not like injured Wade is going to put up 25 PPG playing with Bird and Bosh is going to go back to playing in the post.

he also wouldnt have relegated bosh into a full time spot up 3 pt shooter like bron did against indy

Really? I remember Bosh shooting 50% from the 3 and having <40% FG%.

the bird-led heat wouldve made quicker work of SAS.

ISH would've blamed Bird for not "shutting down" Green, Neal, Parker, Duncan, etc..

No way they lose 2011 either. For all your talk about 2011 working with lebron and wade with regards to dribbling duties.. It didnt work!

Probably. If Bird can get the Heat past the Bulls, they would've swept the Mav's without question.

Wade had to take a step down in 2012 and allow lebron to have full reigns and thats when the teqam clicked and won a championship.

WADE WAS INJURED AND HAD TO STEP BACK. You might not remember it, but he basically missed a third of the season.

With Bird, that 2011 collapse never happens.

Sure, if they get past the Bulls.

I say 3 titles in 4 years..

'11 for sure. '12 if they get past the Celtics and '13, I doubt it. 2 tiles.

and he definitely wouldnt have let his guys get beat by the biggest margin in nba history. Too much pride for that.. thered at least be some blood on the court.

Pride doesn't help Wade, Chalmers, etc. perform better.

Again, you can't go wrong with picking either, but lets not pretend like the gap is huge. The gap is extremely small (either way).

[DMAVS41]

Because 2 rings are going to hurt Bosh's chances of getting into the HOF, right?




Why are you complaining about it, when it's extremely effective? You said it yourself. It's not like injured Wade is going to put up 25 PPG playing with Bird and Bosh is going to go back to playing in the post.


Really? I remember Bosh shooting 50% from the 3 and having <40% FG%.




ISH would've blamed Bird for not "shutting down" Green, Neal, Parker, Duncan, etc..



Probably. If Bird can get the Heat past the Bulls, they would've swept the Mav's without question.


WADE WAS INJURED AND HAD TO STEP BACK. You might not remember it, but he basically missed a third of the season.


Sure, if they get past the Bulls.


'11 for sure. '12 if they get past the Celtics and '13, I doubt it. 2 tiles.


Pride doesn't help Wade, Chalmers, etc. perform better.

You realize most of those quotes aren't mine...

[aj1987]

You realize most of those quotes aren't mine...

Yeah, fixed it. My bad.

[Elosha]

One can argue either way in the Larry v. Lebron debate. Personally, I'd take Larry Bird. Although he had some playoff failings, he was often clutch and came up with great plays time after time. He simply rises to the occasion more often than Lebron does.

Lebron is clearly better than Scottie Pippen, but those posters who are mocking Pippen and stating he's nowhere close to Lebron are way off base. Scottie was a bit of an inconsistent scorer, but in all of his years as a Bull from 91 through 98, he could usually be counted on for at least 18-20, 6, and 6. I also believe he was a bit better as a help defender and possibly a better individual defender than Lebron. He had a bit better lateral quickness and tenacity, especially when comparing Lebron's defense over the last 2+ seasons.

Also, Scottie was very comparable athletically to Lebron. He was extremely fast in the open court, and dunked just about as well as Lebron off one foot and better off of two feet. He was an excellent finisher with either right or left hands and had beautiful finger rolls and floaters as well as amazing dunks. Honestly, Pippen is one of the top athletes of all time in the NBA. He just gets overshadowed by Jordan.

Scottie's jumpshot, while fairly solid, was not as potent as Lebron's, which isn't to say Lebron is an all time great in that category by any means. Lebron's biggest advantage was his power; he can bull his way to the basket where Pippen might not be able to. Lebron is a more explosive and skilled scorer overall. Both are very good ballhandlers and equivalent playmakers and rebounders. Neither of them is particularly eager to take the last shot and both have noticeably come up short in big playoff moments.

In short, these are three of the top 10 SF in NBA history. Bird and Lebron are obviously near the top of that list, but Scottie can respectably compare to either of them.

[Hey Yo]

not sure why you got mad then, when i pointed out that Mchale would never have made the HOF and his career would have been hurt playing lebron-ball.

Was Chris Bosh's career headed into the direction of the HOF before he joined the Heat and LeBron ball?

[tpols]

Pride doesn't help Wade, Chalmers, etc. perform better.

Again, you can't go wrong with picking either, but lets not pretend like the gap is huge. The gap is extremely small (either way).

Pride in the form of leadership actually does and can make teammates perform better. The heat looked dead and unmotivated in the finals last year.. there was no commradery, not even a single rally. Its as if lebron wasnt even speaking in huddles and daydreaming about going back to cleveland.

Bird played in the boston Garden where it routinely got hotter in their building than what the temperature was in game 1 of last year in San Antonio. Guys dying on the court.. Bird could withstand some adversity, and tougher conditions.. he wouldnt be collapsing on the court in the 4th quarter because the air conditioning levels didnt quite meet his usual standards.

Last years finals was such a sham.. all teamwork, motivation, and leadership were gone and lebron went down quiet with the sinking ship imo.

Sure, if they get past the Bulls.

You have to be kidding right.. ? prime larry bird, Chris bosh, and dwayne wade losing to the at the time struggling, derrick rose led chicago bulls.

[Milbuck]

Lol at Pippen. Might as well throw Alonzo Mourning into the mix the next time we're arguing Shaq vs Kareem

Imo, Lebron at his absolute highest level edges out Bird. But I think the difference in their skillsets, physique, mentality, etc is so vast that there's no way to predict how series would play out if you just swapped them. Both ends of the floor, Miami's style of play would have to change with Bird there. Their defense would no doubt suffer, Lebron's help defense and unreal versatility allowed them to do so many different things and have a vicious trapping defense..I don't see that with Bird..quality defender, but he's not quarterbacking that D the way Lebron did at his best. But I think Bird's superior off-ball game, jumper, post game, etc might enhance their offense. Wade would be able to play his game a bit more naturally, resume higher ball handling duties, and they could still run a similar offense except with less redundancy and even more elite shooting in Bird. If I had to do it, I say they win in 2011 and 2013. People are overrating Lebron's 2013 run and underrating his 2012 run imo.

[unbreakable]

Lol at Pippen. Might as well throw Alonzo Mourning into the mix the next time we're arguing Shaq vs Kareem

Zo has 6 rings? Zo was a co-alpha who routinely saved MJ aka Da GOATs ass in big moments?

Pip was robbed of atleast 1 Finals MVP and outplayed the GOAT plenty of times... youre talking out your ass if you think LBJ would ever outplay the GOAT.. he dont have the mental fortitude

smarten up kiddo

[bizil]

For those that say Bird is the better fit with Wade over Bron are CORRECT! But u are CORRECT in terms of scoring areas they could dominate. And of course the floor spacing Bird would provide. But let's not get it twisted, Bron would be a better fit with Wade in terms of defense. The heat wouldn't be on Wade to always guard the other teams best perimeter scorer.

Wade was for many years Miami's de facto PG. Bron also took the pressure off Wade in that regard too. Bron and Wade both have PG pace and skillset in their game. Bird was more of a point forward in the halfcourt from his SF or PF spot. I mean shit, Bron-Wade, MJ-Pip, and West-Baylor is as good as it gets in terms of SG-SF combos.

So let's not get carried away with dissing Bron while saying Bird is BY FAR the better fit with Wade. U could certainly say that in terms of scoring skillset. But in other areas, Bron is just as good and AN EVEN better fit next to Wade.

[SouBeachTalents]

Was Chris Bosh's career headed into the direction of the HOF before he joined the Heat and LeBron ball?

**** no

[PsychoBe]

here we go underrating bird's defense because he's an "unathletic white guy"

he was an extremely potent post-defender (bran can't even properly defend in the post), a fantastic help defender (had great length) and a great man-defender (you had to actually know how to play defense in that time period to get playing time)

anyone who didn't study bird's game in detail should not be replying in this thread at all.

[plowking]

I'm a bigger fan of Bird than Bron, even given Bron's time at Miami, but are people serious with picking Bird over Bron? I really don't think it is a discussion anymore.

He's achieved more than Bird has and he is just 29, and not to mention Bron at his peak was undoubtedly a better player. It's not a knock on Bird either, who I consider to have a top 6 peak, but it isn't better than Bron's.

I mean, anyone who has Bird ahead, explain it to me, because going by explanations in here, it seems like the typical Bron haters crusading again. Bron was better at his peak, he has achieved more accolades and Bron is as good or better playoff performer. What more are we basing it on, because Bron has him beat everywhere aside from clutch play.

[DMAVS41]

I'm a bigger fan of Bird than Bron, even given Bron's time at Miami, but are people serious with picking Bird over Bron? I really don't think it is a discussion anymore.

He's achieved more than Bird has and he is just 29, and not to mention Bron at his peak was undoubtedly a better player. It's not a knock on Bird either, who I consider to have a top 6 peak, but it isn't better than Bron's.

I mean, anyone who has Bird ahead, explain it to me, because going by explanations in here, it seems like the typical Bron haters crusading again. Bron was better at his peak, he has achieved more accolades and Bron is as good or better playoff performer. What more are we basing it on, because Bron has him beat everywhere aside from clutch play.

The bold is simply not true. I mean...I'm fine with someone saying peak Lebron was better, and I might agree, but this whole "undoubtedly" notion is total bullshit.

Peak/Prime Bird was a ****ing artist on the basketball court.

[tpols]

^Not only that.. but when the differences are so minimal, what does individual peak matter when talking fit for team? Lebron could peak 2% higher than Larry Bird.. but he reduces teammates ability/confidence by -10%, while Larry Bird increases it by +10% nullifying the individual advantage tenfold.

[mehyaM24]

I'm a bigger fan of Bird than Bron, even given Bron's time at Miami, but are people serious with picking Bird over Bron? I really don't think it is a discussion anymore.

He's achieved more than Bird has and he is just 29, and not to mention Bron at his peak was undoubtedly a better player. It's not a knock on Bird either, who I consider to have a top 6 peak, but it isn't better than Bron's.

I mean, anyone who has Bird ahead, explain it to me, because going by explanations in here, it seems like the typical Bron haters crusading again. Bron was better at his peak, he has achieved more accolades and Bron is as good or better playoff performer. What more are we basing it on, because Bron has him beat everywhere aside from clutch play.

interesting. who are the only players to have better peaks than lebron, IYO?