From Nov 2014: People still think LeBron > Bird/Pippen?

[RRR3]

Lebron isn't better than Bird yet.

Bird has zero case over LeBron.

[SouBeachTalents]

Its all about who you respect more. Definitely its bird. Bran is not even respected as dirk

It's ironic you're so obsessed with respect considering the franchise you root for

[tmacattack33]

29 yr old Pippen put up 21/8/5 a game on 48% shooting and led the league in steals, at his peak defensively...and he played on a shit team that year.

29 yr old Bird averaged 26/10/7/2 on 50/42/90 shooting, leading his team to a 3rd ring while his production skyrocketed in the POs....

Bran's decline is going to hit him hard. Dude might not be top 20 when it's all said & done.

Please tell me more about this "decline" that you thought Lebron was going to go through.

[aj1987]

Pride in the form of leadership actually does and can make teammates perform better. The heat looked dead and unmotivated in the finals last year.. there was no commradery, not even a single rally. Its as if lebron wasnt even speaking in huddles and daydreaming about going back to cleveland.

Bird played in the boston Garden where it routinely got hotter in their building than what the temperature was in game 1 of last year in San Antonio. Guys dying on the court.. Bird could withstand some adversity, and tougher conditions.. he wouldnt be collapsing on the court in the 4th quarter because the air conditioning levels didnt quite meet his usual standards.

Last years finals was such a sham.. all teamwork, motivation, and leadership were gone and lebron went down quiet with the sinking ship imo.

You have to be kidding right.. ? prime larry bird, Chris bosh, and dwayne wade losing to the at the time struggling, derrick rose led chicago bulls.

Bird guarding Rose the way LeBron did...

[Paul George 24]

PIPPEN Is A ROLE PLAYER

[tpols]

Larry Bird won multiple rings with a handful of guys who were borderline top 25 players in the league ~ dennis johnson, cedric maxwell, robert parish, etc .. and one guy who might have been borderline top 10 player in kevin mchale. Lebron otoh needed Dwayne Wade when he was a bonafide top 3 player in the game, and then a handful of top 25ish guys in bosh, love and Kyrie. Bird also competed in a tougher conference.

So as far as olympic style ring counting goes, Bird and LeBron are tied neck and neck with 3 Gold rings a piece, but due to above circumstances ^^^ i have to give larry legend the edge for now.

Bird guarding Rose the way LeBron did...

uh, that wouldnt matter much .. a team with dwayne wade, larry bird, and chris bosh would destroy derrick rose and his band of hustle scrubs regardless.. that shit's a joke lol. it's hilarious watching you guys prop that team after what we know about the players in hindsight.

[TheWinningFam]

Larry Bird won multiple rings with a handful of guys who were borderline top 25 players in the league ~ dennis johnson, cedric maxwell, robert parish, etc .. and one guy who might have been borderline top 10 player in kevin mchale. Lebron otoh needed Dwayne Wade when he was a bonafide top 3 player in the game, and then a handful of top 25ish guys in bosh, love and Kyrie. Bird also competed in a tougher conference.

So as far as olympic style ring counting goes, Bird and LeBron are tied neck and neck with 3 Gold rings a piece, but due to above circumstances ^^^ i have to give larry legend the edge for now.






uh, that wouldnt matter much .. a team with dwayne wade, larry bird, and chris bosh would destroy derrick rose and his band of hustle scrubs regardless.. that shit's a joke lol. it's hilarious watching you guys prop that team after what we know about the players in hindsight.

Comon breh, larry bird was slow as hell and nowhere near as good, (dont even get me talking bout defense) larry bird had a better jumpshot thats it lol. lebron passed bird after he won his first ring

[Sarcastic]

Bird has zero case over LeBron.

Bird certainly does. If you have Lebron over Bird, that is fine, but to say Bird has zero case is retarded.

[LostCause]

Bird certainly does. If you have Lebron over Bird, that is fine, but to say Bird has zero case is retarded.

True

Bird definitely does have a case against anyone in history, the guy was that good.

Pippen I'd give the advantage defensively but that's about it, Lebron is better everywhere else

Bron is better than both overall, but Bird is a lot closer than some here are giving him credit for

[Hoopz2332]

Larry Bird won multiple rings with a handful of guys who were borderline top 25 players in the league ~ dennis johnson, cedric maxwell, robert parish, etc .. and one guy who might have been borderline top 10 player in kevin mchale. Lebron otoh needed Dwayne Wade when he was a bonafide top 3 player in the game, and then a handful of top 25ish guys in bosh, love and Kyrie. Bird also competed in a tougher conference.

So as far as olympic style ring counting goes, Bird and LeBron are tied neck and neck with 3 Gold rings a piece, but due to above circumstances ^^^ i have to give larry legend the edge for now.

lebron has surpassed Bird






trying to compare 1980s stats to 2000s stats straight-up.

Lebron's TS% is actually 58.1%, well above Bird's 56.4%.

In '79-'80, when Bird came into the league, the average game had 220 possessions/game (counting shots and turnovers). By the time he retired in 1992 that had dropped to 210.

In '03-'04, when Lebron came into the league, the average game had 190 possessions/game. It dropped to 186 by '06 before rising to 197 now.


Bird's basically getting a 12% bump on every stat just because guys were running up and down the floor and letting the ball fly in the 1980s. The game was a lot more wide open.


By 100 possessions, the numbers are:

Lebron: 36.9 points, 9.7 boards, 9.4 assists, 2.3 steals, 1.1 blocks
Bird: 30.3 points, 12.5 boards, 7.9 assists, 2.1 steals, 1.0 blocks


Add in the better eff, and Lebron kills Bird on the advanced stats.

PER: Lebron 27.7, Bird 23.5
Win shares/48: Lebron .240, Bird .203
BPM: Lebron 9.2, Bird 7.2
VORP: Lebron 108.6, Bird 79.7




....lets not even get started on defense

[tpols]

^ you want to go pure stats, when its obvious that Bird's off ball, facilitating style puts a much better lid on what his teammates were capable of as compared to LeBron's ball dominating, one off passing, assist accumulating style.. which is why Larry won the same amount with weaker overall casts talent wise, and against tougher competition. Bird was simply better at making others around him better, bridging the gap for any differences in stat lines.

[Hoopz2332]

^ you want to go pure stats, when its obvious that Bird's off ball, facilitating style puts a much better lid on what his teammates were capable of as compared to LeBron's ball dominating, one off passing, assist accumulating style.. which is why Larry won the same amount with weaker overall casts talent wise, and against tougher competition. Bird was simply better at making others around him better, bridging the gap for any differences in stat lines.

lebron's advanced stats all across the board blow bird out the water. lets talk about defense.

lebron was runner up for 2 defensive player of year awards and 2 other top 5 selections for that award togo go along with 6 All defensive teams. 5 times on the first team.

[Hey Yo]

Larry Bird won multiple rings with a handful of guys who were borderline top 25 players in the league ~ dennis johnson, cedric maxwell, robert parish, etc .. and one guy who might have been borderline top 10 player in kevin mchale. Lebron otoh needed Dwayne Wade when he was a bonafide top 3 player in the game, and then a handful of top 25ish guys in bosh, love and Kyrie. Bird also competed in a tougher conference.

So as far as olympic style ring counting goes, Bird and LeBron are tied neck and neck with 3 Gold rings a piece, but due to above circumstances ^^^ i have to give larry legend the edge for now.

McHale was rookie of the year and B2B 6th man of the year in 84-85. He was that good and Boston still couldn't break him into the starting line-up.

If I'm Bird...I'd rather have DJ, Ainge, Maxwell and Parrish as my starting teammates > 14th year Bibby, Wade , Bosh and Joel Anthony.

Then you have the 6th man of the year McHale >>>> any 6th man James ever had with the Cavs or Heat.

[aj1987]

uh, that wouldnt matter much .. a team with dwayne wade, larry bird, and chris bosh would destroy derrick rose and his band of hustle scrubs regardless.. that shit's a joke lol. it's hilarious watching you guys prop that team after what we know about the players in hindsight.

You didn't watch that series, did you?

^ you want to go pure stats, when its obvious that Bird's off ball, facilitating style puts a much better lid on what his teammates were capable of as compared to LeBron's ball dominating, one off passing, assist accumulating style.. which is why Larry won the same amount with weaker overall casts talent wise, and against tougher competition. Bird was simply better at making others around him better, bridging the gap for any differences in stat lines.

You're kidding, right? Johnson, Parish, McHale, Maxwell, Ainge, Tiny, etc..

Has LeBron had any teammate make the All-Def and All-NBA teams in the same season? Heck, if I'm not mistaken, LeBron has never even played with someone who made the All-Def team (while playing with LeBron). Bird has had multiple teammates do it in the SAME season.

[juju151111]

lebron has surpassed Bird






trying to compare 1980s stats to 2000s stats straight-up.

Lebron's TS% is actually 58.1%, well above Bird's 56.4%.

In '79-'80, when Bird came into the league, the average game had 220 possessions/game (counting shots and turnovers). By the time he retired in 1992 that had dropped to 210.

In '03-'04, when Lebron came into the league, the average game had 190 possessions/game. It dropped to 186 by '06 before rising to 197 now.


Bird's basically getting a 12% bump on every stat just because guys were running up and down the floor and letting the ball fly in the 1980s. The game was a lot more wide open.


By 100 possessions, the numbers are:

Lebron: 36.9 points, 9.7 boards, 9.4 assists, 2.3 steals, 1.1 blocks
Bird: 30.3 points, 12.5 boards, 7.9 assists, 2.1 steals, 1.0 blocks


Add in the better eff, and Lebron kills Bird on the advanced stats.

PER: Lebron 27.7, Bird 23.5
Win shares/48: Lebron .240, Bird .203
BPM: Lebron 9.2, Bird 7.2
VORP: Lebron 108.6, Bird 79.7




....lets not even get started on defense

Look at the Celtics pace not the League. It was pretty face through.