where does Dirk rank among all time greatest PFs?

[DMAVS41]

Could you please let me know your thoughts on why the Mavs are struggling out of the gate to a 4-3 record so far despite having what most consider the best offense in the league?

We are first in points per 100 and like 5th in TS% as a team.

You really think a solid assessment of what is wrong with the Mavs lies on the offensive side of the ball?

Of course not. Nobody that knows the game or has watched more than a qtr of Mavs basketball this year would go on and on about how the offense is the problem.

Here's the thing though...the Mavs, so far this year, are essentially the Rockets of last year. A 114 ortg and a 111 drtg. Great offense...and shit defense.

Why are you trying to make this complicated?

[Pointguard]

Jesus...what is so hard to understand? The Mavs probably have the best offense in the league so far. Why are they only 4-3? Because the defense sucks. Why are the Rockets 6-1? Because their defense is a shockingly good 3rd best in the league so far....so even though their offense has regressed a bit to 10 in the league...they are simply a better team right now than they were last year if this holds.

Again...this is so simple. It's truly pathetic you can't grasp this.

Wow, pathetic. really?

I gave you 14 articles mostly by outstanding journalist, and you are still on square one. Those articles aren't about the defense!!! They are all about the offense. Please, show me one article that talks about the '14 Houston offense as one of the greatest ever. Just one!!! Why do you think this is the case. Surely your metrics are right. The 14 journalist, the three posters on this board and myself, are all wrong because stats say we are.

Do you have a TV??? There is no way that you can see both offenses and think they are equal. But you don't trust your eyes. You never revert to what you see in an argument. Do you honestly believe that Houston offense was among the best ever??? Without one dependable scorer, not a functional half-court system, sloppy movement, both main scorers being deadspots in the offensive flow?

We are comparing that to one of the greatest motion offenses ever? Hardly any dead spots, 9 active players keeping the ball live and hitting the opponents weak spot? You don't see this?

[TheBigVeto]

Dirk Better Than Prime Barkley and Malone?

Yup. Don't be mad.

[TheBigVeto]

1. Duncan
2. Charles
3. Malone
4. KG
5. Dirk
6. Petit
7. Mchale

Who cares after that.

Why are people so down on Malone?

Because he joined the Fakers.

[DMAVS41]

Wow, pathetic. really?

I gave you 14 articles mostly by outstanding journalist, and you are still on square one. Those articles aren't about the defense!!! They are all about the offense. Please, show me one article that talks about the '14 Houston offense as one of the greatest ever. Just one!!! Why do you think this is the case. Surely your metrics are right. The 14 journalist, the three posters on this board and myself, are all wrong because stats say we are.

Do you have a TV??? There is no way that you can see both offenses and think they are equal. But you don't trust your eyes. You never revert to what you see in an argument. Do you honestly believe that Houston offense was among the best ever??? Without one dependable scorer, not a functional half-court system, sloppy movement, both main scorers being deadspots in the offensive flow?

We are comparing that to one of the greatest motion offenses ever? Hardly any dead spots, 9 active players keeping the ball live and hitting the opponents weak spot? You don't see this?

Of course the articles would be about offense. The Spurs offense was their calling card. It's not like they played historic defense or something.

This point makes non sense. I never said the Spurs defense was historically better than their offense.

I simply said when comparing the Rockets and Spurs of last year in the playoffs....the big difference was the defense...not offense. And all year actually....at 88 games for the Rockets...their offense was every bit as good in a broad sense as the Spurs.

You don't like that style...so you assume it would crumble. But we simply don't know. The Rockets might have caught fire and tore through everyone offensively like the Spurs did.

You can't see the future...we are talking about reality here. And when the Rockets lined up to play last year...their offense was elite...every bit as good as any other offense in the league.

Again...not hard. Compare the Rockets and Spurs...and the big difference is defense. Not offense.

[bizil]

I think the fact that Dirk could rank as high as number two GOAT wise for PF's WITHOUT being a dominant rebounder or defender speaks VOLUMES! Every other top 10-15 GOAT PF was a great rebounder, great defender, or both. Even the forerunner to Dirk in McAdoo(at C or PF) was a great rebounder. Dirk was such an epic mismatch and supreme alpha dog that it superceded almost every other PF to ever do it! Along with KG, was the major influence for the supersized SF craze going on the L back in the early 2000s. Of course both eventually settled into their PF spots.

[Round Mound]

Barkley and Malone Where Better At Everything Than Dirk Other Than Outside Far Range Shooting.

[bizil]

Barkley and Malone Where Better At Everything Than Dirk Other Than Outside Far Range Shooting.

I would take Barkley, Malone, Duncan, and KG over Dirk peak wise no doubt. I just put a certain premium on toughness, rebounding, and defense. I feel most of the great PF's were great at two or all three of those facets. I don't think Dirk was soft, but he was more of an oversized SF. In terms of skillset and how he defines his greatness. That's why Nellie had him play lots of SF early in his career. But ultimately of course he was better off at the PF for defensive reasons. I DO think Dirk is arguably the biggest matchup nightmare EVER at PF along with Barkley and Bob McAdoo.

[Round Mound]

I would take Barkley, Malone, Duncan, and KG over Dirk peak wise no doubt. I just put a certain premium on toughness, rebounding, and defense. I feel most of the great PF's were great at two or all three of those facets. I don't think Dirk was soft, but he was more of an oversized SF. In terms of skillset and how he defines his greatness. That's why Nellie had him play lots of SF early in his career. But ultimately of course he was better off at the PF for defensive reasons. I DO think Dirk is arguably the biggest matchup nightmare EVER at PF along with Barkley and Bob McAdoo.

Its Good you Mention McAdoo Too! I Forgot to Mention Him, He Probably is a Top 10 GOAT PF and it was Nonsense That He Was Not Included in the Top 50 Players of All Time. Prime Barkley was the Biggest Missmatch Ever for PFs. He was the Shaq of PFs Offensively and was the Better Passer and Rebounder of The TOP 5 All Time PFs.

[bizil]

Its Good you Mention McAdoo Too! I Forgot to Mention Him, He Probably is a Top 10 GOAT PF and it was Nonsense That He Was Not Included in the Top 50 Players of All Time. Prime Barkley was the Biggest Missmatch Ever for PFs. He was the Shaq of PFs Offensively and was the Better Passer and Rebounder of The TOP 5 All Time PFs.

I agree! For me McAdoo is weird cause they say his best years were at C. But he had great years at PF as well. But on the surface, THERE'S NO DOUBT McAdoo was a PF and in many ways the original stretch PF. Dirk took it to a new level because he was 7'0 and was a great three point shooter. But in terms of McAdoo, if u count him as a PF I think he's a top 5 PF in terms of peak.

[MavsPoke]

Duncan
Dirk
Garnett
Malone
Barkley

this is the truth. a lot of people cant believe it, but this is it.

This is the correct ranking.

2-4 are all super close.

Dirk won a championship as the main man on his team. He also took what was the worst franchise in pro sports and turned it into just behind the Spurs in winning percentage.

Garnett won a championship as part of a Big 3. He didn't have playoff success in Minny and went to Boston to team up with 2 HOFs.

Malone and Barkley were amazing, legendary players but no championships so I gotta put them behind Dirk and Garnett.

[04mzwach]

I think they need to refresh the list of all time scorers. It's alright to have a complete list ranking too but the rules have changed enough to where scoring isn't really as difficult. I'm not talking about Dirk because I think his game isn't affected by the rules of the NBA today or yesterday.

Kobe:

Nowadays, literally anybody can get out there and get to the basket because you can't touch anybody," he said. "Back then, guys put their hands on you, you had to have the skill to be able to go both ways, change directions and post up. You had to have midrange game because you didn't want to go all the way to the basket because you'd get knocked [flat]. Playing the game back then required much more skill."

[tpols]

Barkley and Malone Where Better At Everything Than Dirk Other Than Outside Far Range Shooting.

All three were offensive juggernaut but dirk was the only one that won anything. Barkley and Malone also had comparable help so that's not an excuse.

[R.I.P.]

Barkley and Malone Where Better At Everything Than Dirk Other Than Outside Far Range Shooting.

...And winning rings.

[Round Mound]

...And winning rings.

Are We Going To Compare The 00s and 10s To The Dream Team Era of the 80s and 90s?

Please....