SportsVu Data Proves Lebron Dominates the Ball Like a Point Guard

[ArbitraryWater]

As other people said, usage rate doesn't mean time of possession of the ball. It means the percentage of team plays used by a player while he is on the floor. Like for example, Shaq had a usage rate of 31.8% in 2002. Does this mean he hold the ball more than Kobe who had a usage rate of 30.4% in 2002? Nope.

But LeBron does seem like a more willing passer than Jordan to me. And APG doesn't necessary mean better passer.

Considering they're on the same Team, shouldn't that be what it means?

[Hey Yo]

you guys are seriously mad because i posted stats that show lebron dominates the ball, which proves he underachieves with his assist totals?

this is a perfectly reasonable conclusion to arrive at when looking at the stats - i.e. massive ball-dominator with greater surrounding talent only averages 6.4 assists and gets worse results - this means his passing is overrated... period....
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Compared to Jordan and Bird??

EOT......your trolling is dumb.

[3ball]

Compared to Jordan and Bird??

EOT......your trolling is dumb.

Jordan never had a 3rd scoring option like Lebron.

For his first 3 championships, he only played with one all-star, not two like Lebron.

Then when you compare Chalmers, Ray Allen and Cole to the likes of Paxson, Kerr and Armstrong - it's not even close - the Heat guys are way more talented.

you don't see kerr, paxson or armstrong dunking in games like those guys did:

http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/...ff2471ac4b.gif
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/...5b02e500bd.gif
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/...867dc3677f.gif


But most importantly, the stats PROVE Jordan had the weakest supporting cast - in order to win his championships, Jordan had to have the highest ever PER, PPG, Usage, Win Shares.... the Win Share stat alone shows that he contributed more to his teams wins than anyone in history...
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[Dro]

Jordan never had a 3rd scoring option like Lebron.

For his first 3 championships, he only played with one all-star, not two like Lebron.

Then when you compare Chalmers, Ray Allen and Cole to the likes of Paxson, Kerr and Armstrong - it's not even close - the Heat guys are way more talented.

you don't see kerr, paxson or armstrong dunking in games like those guys did:
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/...ff2471ac4b.gif
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/...5b02e500bd.gif
http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/...867dc3677f.gif


But most importantly, the stats PROVE Jordan had the weakest supporting cast - in order to win his championships, Jordan had to have the highest ever PER, PPG, Usage, Win Shares.... the Win Share stat alone shows that he contributed more to his teams wins than anyone in history...

Sorry bro, I'm not buying this and you know I'm a Jordan fan. But Kerr, Paxson, Armstrong>>>>>Chalmers, Cole, and Allen any day. Now Allen is better than all of them even at this age but Kerr and Paxson are definitely better shooters and more reliable than Chalmers and Cole. If Lebron had Paxson and Kerr spotting up outside, he'd probably average even more assists....Assists are not just about ball dominance and passing ability, its also about the team's style of play, your teammates, do you have plenty of spacing/spot up shooters and the competition you're playing against......

[3ball]

Sorry bro, I'm not buying this and you know I'm a Jordan fan. But Kerr, Paxson, Armstrong>>>>>Chalmers, Cole, and Allen any day. Now Allen is better than all of them even at this age but Kerr and Paxson are definitely better shooters and more reliable than Chalmers and Cole. If Lebron had Paxson and Kerr spotting up outside, he'd probably average even more assists....Assists are not just about ball dominance and passing ability, its also about the team's style of play, your teammates, do you have plenty of spacing/spot up shooters and the competition you're playing against......

chalmers, ray allen, and cole were way more talented than kerr, paxson and armstrong - just look at their athleticism... they are just as good shooters too percentage-wise, and keep in mind that lebron's teams literally triple and quadrupled the number of 3's hit by Jordan's teams.

also, dallas and okc had no problem competing with the spurs - dallas almost beat them and okc might have won if they were healthy... spurs were far from a dominant team - they lost 6 games before the Finals... the spurs only destroyed the heat and portland... the crappy teams.

[3ball]

As other people said, usage rate doesn't mean time of possession of the ball. It means the percentage of team plays used by a player while he is on the floor. Like for example, Shaq had a usage rate of 31.8% in 2002. Does this mean he hold the ball more than Kobe who had a usage rate of 30.4% in 2002? Nope.

But LeBron does seem like a more willing passer than Jordan to me. And APG doesn't necessary mean better passer.

thank you for clarifying usage.

so what constitutes a better passer?... it's not assists per game as you said, which nullifies the fact that lebron's' assist average is not impressive given his ball dominance.

it's not team success... it's not the performance of your teammates... because if these things came into play, Jordan would be the better passer..

so what constitutes a better passer?

[russwest0]

LeBron is the second best PG of all time behind Magic Johnson. This isn't news.

[Joyner82reload]

Typical ball hogging LeBran. No wonder every other player sucks other than spot up shooters when playing with him. Sad that he basically ruined the 2nd half of Wade's career.

[Dro]

chalmers, ray allen, and cole were way more talented than kerr, paxson and armstrong - just look at their athleticism... they are just as good shooters too percentage-wise, and keep in mind that lebron's teams literally triple and quadrupled the number of 3's hit by Jordan's teams.

also, dallas and okc had no problem competing with the spurs - dallas almost beat them and okc might have won if they were healthy... spurs were far from a dominant team - they lost 6 games before the Finals... the spurs only destroyed the heat and portland... the crappy teams.

Ok stats aside, do you honestly think Cole and Chalmers are more reliable shooters? I think we know the answer to that. Cole and Chalmers being better all-around players is irrelevant here because we are talking about styles of play. Lebron is ball dominant, as he should be but he consistently tries to get guys involved. MJ didn't really try to get guys involved, he just ended up getting them involved because of all the attention he drew. Lebron is a more willing passer which means he'll snap a pass around the perimeter to a shooter and the pass is so quick, a basic chest pass but it gives his teammates a chance to make a quick move because the defender has to get out on them quick in case they take the shot because Lebron got the pass over to them so quickly.

Thats not how MJ did it. MJ is going to penetrate, draw defenders and maybe still take the shot or possibly kick it out to Kerr or Paxson or Armstrong. They fit his style. MJ doesn't need another player on his team to be a creator or to dominate the ball because he is already the best option. Same with Lebron, he's the best option, the best all-around player in the league. He may benefit more from having a teammate who can create, which he has now but at the same time, its still most beneficial to have the ball in his hands the most because he's the best option AND he's a willing passer.

Kerr, Paxson and Armstrong fit Jordan and Lebron's style actually. Jordan because they're always out there in case he needs to kick it to them. In Lebron's case they would be out there for when he CHOOSES to get them involved. They have different play styles but the same role on their teams.

[SpecialQue]

That son of a bitch.

[Micku]

Considering they're on the same Team, shouldn't that be what it means?

Nope. Like I said, it doesn't measure the time you had the ball. It measures the amount of shots a individual could get his team. In other words, it's how significant the offense resolves around one player.

There are some articles explaining it further, but that's what it means. Here is a link too:

sage rate tells you the number of possessions a player utilizes while on the court. This statistic is a good indicator of how big of a role a particular player has in the team's offense. By following these steps, you can calculate usage rate in basketball.

https://www.ehow.com/how_2096381_cal...asketball.html

Kobe definitely hold the ball more than Shaq even though his usage % is lower than Shaq. What it does say is that Shaq generated more shots and FTs, and contributed more to team offense than Kobe (ever so slightly). And since both of them are in the 30+%, it shows that the 2002 Lakers offense WAS Shaq and Kobe. Surprise...

Anyway, a high usage doesn't equal time of possession. For example, Chris Paul; he holds the ball a lot, which backed up in stats. He has a time of possession rate of 7.3 in 2013-14, which is top 6 in the league. Despite this, he has a usage percentage of 23.7%. How is this possible? It's cuz he got ppl on his team that could create shots. Blake Griffin has a usage percentage of 29%. Jamal Crawford usage is 27.2%.

Again, it's not because they hold the ball more than CP3. It's because they could generate more shots. The Clips offense in general is balance.

[jlip]

The original post for those who even care enough to take 3Ball seriously:

Last season Lebron was 37th in the league in time of possession with the ball, 29th in # of touches in the half court per game, but 10th in assists per game.

What's so interesting is that all the 36 players who held the ball longer than Lebron did so while playing fewer minutes per game. If Lebron is supposedly "ball dominant", what do you call those other 36 players who had the ball in their hands more than him?

So basically if you were to provide a list of the most "ball dominant" players in the league last season, you would have to go through every team in the league and then start over again before you reached Lebron who is a point forward.

Thanks to 3Ball I now know that the 37th leading scorer in the league now qualifies as a "dominant" scorer.

[oarabbus]

LeBron doesn't dominate the ball like Jordan did, though.


Michael Jordan: All time Career highest Usage Percent

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ct_career.html

[russwest0]

LeBron doesn't dominate the ball like Jordan did, though.


Michael Jordan: All time Career highest Usage Percent

http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ct_career.html

Yeah, and he also doesn't put up 11 assists per game and 3 turnovers per game in a whole Finals series. In fact, didn't he almost have as many turnovers as assists in his most recent Finals?

[navy]

Wait? We are complaining about the best player in the game being 37th?