Who deserve to be on top 10(Hakeem vs Lebron)

[Real14]

In the top 10? I can name 20 players who are definitely above him.

Name them.

[aj1987]

Name them.

In no order:
MJ
Kobe
LeBron
Hakeem
Wilt
KAJ
Magic
Shaq
Bird
Duncan
Russell
West
Dirk
Wade
Barkley
Moses
Dr. J
Hondo
Pippen
KG
Baylor
Karl Malone

That's 22 right there, who I would rank over Isiah.

[masonanddixon]

In no order:
MJ
Kobe
LeBron
Hakeem
Wilt
KAJ
Magic
Shaq
Bird
Duncan
Russell
West
Dirk
Wade
Barkley
Moses
Dr. J
Hondo
Pippen
KG
Baylor
Karl Malone

That's 22 right there, who I would rank over Isiah.

Big O and Rick Barry too

[c5terror]

In no order:
MJ
Kobe
LeBron
Hakeem
Wilt
KAJ
Magic
Shaq
Bird
Duncan
Russell
West
Dirk
Wade
Barkley
Moses
Dr. J
Hondo
Pippen
KG
Baylor
Karl Malone

That's 22 right there, who I would rank over Isiah.

What malone over isiah?
1st. malone didn't even win a ring
2nd. isiah is the general of the team that won 2 championship in the golden era of the NBA where magic,jordan,bird were lingering.

3rd. malone is the most dirtiest player in NBA along with his friend stockton and sloan, forget badboys, everytime i watch malone elbowed the sh!t out of everyone who battles him for rebound, I want to puke in disgust not to mention his super friends stockton is kneeing every bigman with his illegal disgusting screen and act like he's the one who got hit. He doesn't deserve to be in hall of fame with stockton and sloan.

[iamgine]

it would be unfair for kobe to remove him since he already have 30k+ points 5chips 2fmvp, 1mvp and 9 all defense(1st)

Not really.

[Element]

Any Top-10 that isn't heavily based on advanced stats which contradict themselves if used together - RAPM and PER shouldn't be mixed to add to your case for example (PER/WS/WARP are not only utterly useless but also incredibly similar anyway) - can't reasonably exclude Kobe and at the same time include LeBron. A good case for him can be made against maybe Hakeem or Bird if you're low on Larry's longevity and playoff let-downs.

Because in doing so you're dismissing rings and I don't see anyone ranking Bill Russell out of the top 10. That dude wouldn't be Top 20 if you dismissed his rings and judged him purely by statistics and how he'd translate across all eras. I don't see anyone dropping Bird out of the Top 10 either, despite incredibly similar advanced stats to Kobe and much worse defense in their primes.

A top 10 without Bryant but WITH LeBron and Hakeem should also, by the same token, be without Bird, Russell and maybe even Wilt and replace them with KG and Steve Nash (advanced stats gods).

[aj1987]

Big O and Rick Barry too

****! How the hell did I forget Oscar and Barry...

1st. malone didn't even win a ring

That matters because? #2 in points, #6 in rebounds, and #10 in steals in the RS. #6 in points, #13 in steals, and #6 in rebounds in the Playoffs. Career averages of 25/10/4/1/1 on 52%, over a 19 year career. Dropped 21/8/5/2 on 46% at 39 in his 18th season. 2x MVP, 11x All-NBA First, 3x All-Defensive First team, etc. Dude was a flat out beast.

2nd. isiah is the general of the team that won 2 championship in the golden era of the NBA where magic,jordan,bird were lingering.

He had the teams to beat them. I'm not saying that Isiah is garbage or anything. Just that Malone was a better player then him.

Your 3rd point is completely irrelevant. Him being dirty doesn't mean that he wasn't a good player.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Both deserve top 10

Top 10 not in order:

Jordan
KAJ
Wilt
Russell
Magic
Bird
Hakeem
Lebron
Duncan
Shaq

one of the worst top 10 lists ive seen here and i follow jameerthefear around, can we ban someone for typing this nonsense?

[Dresta]

Any Top-10 that isn't heavily based on advanced stats which contradict themselves if used together - RAPM and PER shouldn't be mixed to add to your case for example (PER/WS/WARP are not only utterly useless but also incredibly similar anyway) - can't reasonably exclude Kobe and at the same time include LeBron. A good case for him can be made against maybe Hakeem or Bird if you're low on Larry's longevity and playoff let-downs.

Because in doing so you're dismissing rings and I don't see anyone ranking Bill Russell out of the top 10. That dude wouldn't be Top 20 if you dismissed his rings and judged him purely by statistics and how he'd translate across all eras. I don't see anyone dropping Bird out of the Top 10 either, despite incredibly similar advanced stats to Kobe and much worse defense in their primes.

A top 10 without Bryant but WITH LeBron and Hakeem should also, by the same token, be without Bird, Russell and maybe even Wilt and replace them with KG and Steve Nash (advanced stats gods).

oh please just **** off and stay gone.

Both Kobe and Bron are debatable top 10 (imo neither of them are), but Bird, Russell and Wilt are pretty much dead certs. Just because you weren't alive when any of these guys were playing, doesn't mean that what they did didn't happen, or that it somehow matters less.

[INDI]

I seriously think we need to start to consider just calling it top 12 Hakeem and Oscar are consistently left out but they both are absolutely top ten talents.

MJ
KAJ
Magic
Wilt
Russell
Kobe
Lebron
Bird
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Oscar

[INDI]

Any Top-10 that isn't heavily based on advanced stats which contradict themselves if used together - RAPM and PER shouldn't be mixed to add to your case for example (PER/WS/WARP are not only utterly useless but also incredibly similar anyway) - can't reasonably exclude Kobe and at the same time include LeBron. A good case for him can be made against maybe Hakeem or Bird if you're low on Larry's longevity and playoff let-downs.

Because in doing so you're dismissing rings and I don't see anyone ranking Bill Russell out of the top 10. That dude wouldn't be Top 20 if you dismissed his rings and judged him purely by statistics and how he'd translate across all eras. I don't see anyone dropping Bird out of the Top 10 either, despite incredibly similar advanced stats to Kobe and much worse defense in their primes.

A top 10 without Bryant but WITH LeBron and Hakeem should also, by the same token, be without Bird, Russell and maybe even Wilt and replace them with KG and Steve Nash (advanced stats gods).

i agree 100%. If I were not putting any weight on rings/mvps and just looking at the translation of their game across eras then bill russell would absolutely not be top ten and Hakeem would be.

[T_L_P]

I seriously think we need to start to consider just calling it top 12 Hakeem and Oscar are consistently left out but they both are absolutely top ten talents.

MJ
KAJ
Magic
Wilt
Russell
Kobe
Lebron
Bird
Duncan
Shaq
Hakeem
Oscar

Hakeem for sure but Oscar is not a definitive. He's on the short-list of the next best guys, but he isn't significantly better/more successful than: West, Moses, Dirk, Elgin, Petit, KG, if at all.

[La Frescobaldi]

What malone over isiah?
1st. malone didn't even win a ring
2nd. isiah is the general of the team that won 2 championship in the golden era of the NBA where magic,jordan,bird were lingering.

3rd. malone is the most dirtiest player in NBA along with his friend stockton and sloan, forget badboys, everytime i watch malone elbowed the sh!t out of everyone who battles him for rebound, I want to puke in disgust not to mention his super friends stockton is kneeing every bigman with his illegal disgusting screen and act like he's the one who got hit. He doesn't deserve to be in hall of fame with stockton and sloan.

He probly means Moses of the Fo' Fo' Fo'.

Which is true if you think about it; he really was better than Isiah.

[aj1987]

He probly means Moses of the Fo' Fo' Fo'.

Which is true if you think about it; he really was better than Isiah.

Both Malones are better than Isiah.

[c5terror]

****! How the hell did I forget Oscar and Barry...


That matters because? #2 in points, #6 in rebounds, and #10 in steals in the RS. #6 in points, #13 in steals, and #6 in rebounds in the Playoffs. Career averages of 25/10/4/1/1 on 52%, over a 19 year career. Dropped 21/8/5/2 on 46% at 39 in his 18th season. 2x MVP, 11x All-NBA First, 3x All-Defensive First team, etc. Dude was a flat out beast.


He had the teams to beat them. I'm not saying that Isiah is garbage or anything. Just that Malone was a better player then him.

Your 3rd point is completely irrelevant. Him being dirty doesn't mean that he wasn't a good player.

1. That's because of his longevity and should only be a small part of criteria on ranking players.

2. Yeah he has a team, but too beat bird celtic and Magic lakers and Jordan bulls compare to losing one?

3. It is relavant, if only ref have called his every elbow play? he wouldn't have that 11k rebound and his TO will be trice.