Is Kobe a top 5 GOAT scorer? And who is in your top 5?

[Fudge]

Jordan
Kareem
Wilt
Kobe
Durant

I fully expect Durant to surpass all of them, though.

[dubeta]

Jordan
Kareem
Wilt
Kobe
Durant

I fully expect Durant to surpass all of them, though.

PM me so I can spread some knowledge into you little boy

[MP.Trey]

MJ
Wilt
Kareem
Kobe
Jerry West

Shaq a close sixth. I just like West better because he was the total package, could and did score from everywhere on the court, fearless, clutch and not a liability on the line like Shaq. Not the biggest Durant fan but he's on pace for some legendary stuff for sure. Could even end up ahead of Kobe.

[Warfan]

MJ
Wilt
Kareem
Kobe
Jerry West

Shaq a close sixth. I just like West better because he was the total package, could and did score from everywhere on the court, fearless, clutch and not a liability on the line like Shaq. Not the biggest Durant fan but he's on pace for some legendary stuff for sure. Could even end up ahead of Kobe.

Good points. I feel West tends to get overlooked, not just in terms of scoring ability but all time too. He was a great all-around player and one of the best playoffs and finals performers ever. And I think Jordan sets himself apart from the rest in that regard too, dominating on the biggest stage in basketball.

[Iceman#44]

No love for Iceman Gervin?

[Kblaze8855]

Depends on a couple factors. Foremost being...if you mean scoring skillset or ability to score period. Skillset yes. If its ability to score period then probably not.

It is a lot easier to get Kobe to miss than a number of people if all apply equal effort to score. Mostly because Kobe traditionally scores from areas that nobody is or ever will be good enough to make most of your shots from.

If I have to have someone score....no matter how....it just needs doing?

Kareem given the ball in his spot vs Kobe in his....Kareem is more likely to make the shot. So is Jordan. Bernard King probably too to get out of the all time elite players. Kobe is no more likely to score than George Gervin. Or Oscar. Probably not West either. Or Hakeem.

Hell "Im scoring right now...." Barkley or Lebron are more likely to hit the resulting shot. Kobe isn't making his shot more often than Bird either. I never cared much for Adrian Dantleys ball stopping but you give him the ball one on one inside 20 feet hes making the shot more often than Kobe will.

Shaq and Wilt you at least could foul. Most of these guys scored rather easily when its what they set out to do.

Kobe on the same basic level as most but lagging behind the guys who easily get shots close to the basket.

Doesn't matter how good you are....nobody makes half his 18 footers.


That said....

Kobes skillset justifies top 3-5 talk.

Off the top of my head the only midrange/outside shooters who compare to Kobe in the post are Bird, Jordan in his prime, and arguably Oscar and West depending on what you want to call an outside shot.

Maybe Dirk too if you factor in the work he does when he faces up in the post.

And of those guys only Jordan got to the basket as well or better. Maybe West depending on who you ask.

His footwork and positioning are elite. He can get open off the ball. He has both hands. He has every variety of jumper....hook shots...floaters. He can go left or right. He doesnt need to be open...hes on a short list of the best tough shot makers of all time. SO he doesn't need the play to go his way to get a shot he can make which isn't the case with a number of people who can score the same 30 a game...but not get you a shot on command. He doesn't have any holes in his skillset...he just lacks some of the physical advantages that let a number of people get easier shots.

But you cant really discredit people for their physical gifts. Lebron, Jordan, or Wilt minus physical gifts wouldn't be what they were/are. But Kobe in Dell Currys body wouldn't be Kobe either.

[BigTicket]

Kobe is clearly top 5 in ability to hit tough shots, and in desire/drive to score.

However, Kobe is nowhere near the top 5 in ability to get good shots, which I think is more important.

My top 5 would be:

Jordan
Kareem
Wilt
Durant
Gervin

[Warfan]

No love for Iceman Gervin?

Oh, he's certainly up there no doubt. Plenty have guys havent been mentioned though like Bird, Dantley, King, Barkley, Oscar, Baylor etc...

Depends on a couple factors. Foremost being...if you mean scoring skillset or ability to score period. Skillset yes. If its ability to score period then probably not.

It is a lot easier to get Kobe to miss than a number of people if all apply equal effort to score. Mostly because Kobe traditionally scores from areas that nobody is or ever will be good enough to make most of your shots from.

If I have to have someone score....no matter how....it just needs doing?

Kareem given the ball in his spot vs Kobe in his....Kareem is more likely to make the shot. So is Jordan. Bernard King probably too to get out of the all time elite players. Kobe is no more likely to score than George Gervin. Or Oscar. Probably not West either. Or Hakeem.

Hell "Im scoring right now...." Barkley or Lebron are more likely to hit the resulting shot. Kobe isn't making his shot more often than Bird either. I never cared much for Adrian Dantleys ball stopping but you give him the ball one on one inside 20 feet hes making the shot more often than Kobe will.

Shaq and Wilt you at least could foul. Most of these guys scored rather easily when its what they set out to do.

Kobe on the same basic level as most but lagging behind the guys who easily get shots close to the basket.

Doesn't matter how good you are....nobody makes half his 18 footers.


That said....

Kobes skillset justifies top 3-5 talk.

Off the top of my head the only midrange/outside shooters who compare to Kobe in the post are Bird, Jordan in his prime, and arguably Oscar and West depending on what you want to call an outside shot.

Maybe Dirk too if you factor in the work he does when he faces up in the post.

And of those guys only Jordan got to the basket as well or better. Maybe West depending on who you ask.

His footwork and positioning are elite. He can get open off the ball. He has both hands. He has every variety of jumper....hook shots...floaters. He can go left or right. He doesnt need to be open...hes on a short list of the best tough shot makers of all time. SO he doesn't need the play to go his way to get a shot he can make which isn't the case with a number of people who can score the same 30 a game...but not get you a shot on command. He doesn't have any holes in his skillset...he just lacks some of the physical advantages that let a number of people get easier shots.

But you cant really discredit people for their physical gifts. Lebron, Jordan, or Wilt minus physical gifts wouldn't be what they were/are. But Kobe in Dell Currys body wouldn't be Kobe either.

Great post.....You brought up the point about 'ability/skillset vs effectiveness' that i think somewhat goes against Kobe in these rankings. Like you said his skillset is legitimately top 3-5 alltime, and hence at his 'peak' play those skills elevate him to a level we may have never seen in terms of scoring. When he reaches that level he can give you 50+ on nearly all jumpers. He doesnt need to get to the rim consistently to put up big scoring numbers because of his skillset...

But i think the question still remains, whether or not he's consistently effective enough to be put in the top 5. Maybe skillset should just be weighted a lot more in these rankings. But on the other hand i agree that a player shouldnt be discredited because of their physical gifts.

This all just leads to the point that im not certain about how much weighting should go into these and other factors to determine the rankings...

[SexSymbol]

1.MJ
2.Kobe
3.Kareem
4.West
5.Wilt

[Psileas]

Couple points for West -


Averaged 31/5/5 in the finals. 31ppg in his finals career is 3rd all time. However he played 45 more finals games than Barry and 20 more than MJ.

Had finals series of 31.1ppg, 29.5ppg, 33.8ppg, 33.9ppg, 31.3, 38ppg, 31.3ppg

20 40+ point playoff games

74 30+ point playoff games

31 30+ point finals games

3rd all time in playoff ppg (29.1)

Well, the bolded makes his averages all the more impressive. Because they were the results of multiple Finals series, not, e.g, like Barry, who only happened to reach to the Finals in his 2 most prolific seasons.

[Warfan]

Well, the bolded makes his averages all the more impressive. Because they were the results of multiple Finals series, not, e.g, like Barry, who only happened to reach to the Finals in his 2 most prolific seasons.

Yeah, i meant it as a point to show that it's VERY impressive considering he played many more finals games than those 2. I can see how you read it that way though...

[LAZERUSS]

Of course there is a huge difference between shooting, and scoring. If basketball games were comprised of taking wide open shots, Steve Kerr or Kyle Korver likely would head the list.

But, the ability to SCORE, against sophisticated defenses, against defensive specialists, and in many cases, against multiple defenders is totally different. Kobe has been one of the greatest SCORERS because he can simply get his shot almost any time, and under virtually all conditions. There have been countless instances in his career, where the shot-clock is winding down, and he buries a shot from 25+ feet with multiple defenders draped all over him.

I have read many, even at the time, that claimed that Pistol Pete was a shot-jacker. Yes, he was. But think about this. In his college career, spanning three straight seasons, he averaged 44 ppg. And he did so with very little help, and against opposing defenses designed to specifically stop him.

Most everyone here has played organized basketball at at least some level in their lifetimes. Now, honestly ask yourself, how many 40+ point games did you have? Here was Maravich AVERAGING that at the highest college level, and in fact, he would go on to lead the NBA in scoring in '77, at 31.1 ppg. His NBA high game was 68 points, too.

Kobe averaged 35.4 ppg in an NBA that averaged 97.0 ppg in 05-06. He not only had that incredible 81 point game, but perhaps his 62 point game against the Mavs (who were 18-6 at the time...and would get to the Finals) was even more impressive. He had outscored the entire Mavs team, 62-61, and likely could have hung more than 81 had he played the entire game.

He is definitely a top-5 scorer.

[HurricaneKid]

lol at lebron being mentioned

Scoring more points on greater efficiency is no laughing matter.

Shocked I haven't seen more love for KD and AI here.

[ArbitraryWater]

I don't see how a guy scoring at a 45% rate can be a top 5 scorer tbh...

[ILLsmak]

As much as I love bigs, I can't put any big as a great scorer because they need someone to get them the ball. To me the best scorers are dudes who could get the ball on the inbound and score 30-40.

Bigs are some different shit even though they get points.

From what I've seen, Kobe is... but I also think Iverson is.

-Smak