ISH All-Time List: Vote on #5 Now.

[russwest0]

Elite peak, GOAT tier NBA cultural significance, near unrivalled BBIQ in NBA history imo, ruthless competitor, bum back.


Just wait 5-10 more years when probably Lebron and possibly Durant start realistically wedging their way in.

Believe me bro, you're preaching to the choir. I have Bird as 5th all time.

MJ
Russell
Duncan/Kobe
Bird

[played0ut]

With his impact i'd put him much higher up too almost over everyone. but it's my realistic GOAT list i need to factor in accolades and longevity

[Y2ktors]

Duncan over Magic Johnson?????????

That's a ****ing joke.

[Y2ktors]

im quite astonish at the disrespect magic is getting. duncan is benefitting so much from wooping lebron's ass this year it's crazy.

It's beyond crazy. It's stupid.

[T_L_P]

It's beyond crazy. It's stupid.

Duncan won the same amount with unquestionably less help against arguably stiffer competition.

I find it odd, but it's not at all crazy. Magic faced like a handful of 38 win teams, need I remind you.

[russwest0]

Duncan won the same amount with unquestionably less help against arguably stiffer competition.

I find it odd, but it's not at all crazy. Magic faced like a handful of 38 win teams, need I remind you.

Lol this.

Magic played with the guy who came in at 2nd on this list in one of the weakest conferences ever...

[Y2ktors]

Lol this.

Magic played with the guy who came in at 2nd on this list in one of the weakest conferences ever...

5 rings in 8 years the toughest era of basketball trumps 5 rings in 17 years in a weaker era. Throw in 6 total MVPS from 80-90 and that discussion is in Magic's favor.

Duncan beats Magic defensively. No doubt. Offensively, Magic beats Duncan. So this isn't the issue.

The IMPACT that Magic had on the game DWARFS what Duncan did and it's not even debatable.

[Y2ktors]

Duncan won the same amount with unquestionably less help against arguably stiffer competition.

I find it odd, but it's not at all crazy. Magic faced like a handful of 38 win teams, need I remind you.

Need I remind u that Duncan lost to lower seeds six times, including a #8 seed? Need I remind u that Duncan faced far inferior competition in the Finals?

[T_L_P]

Need I remind u that Duncan lost to lower seeds six times, including a #8 seed? Need I remind u that Duncan faced far inferior competition in the Finals?

Ah, of course. When it's Magic winning you mention how few years it took.

Didn't mention that he lost to the lower seed like 4 times in just 11 years though? Oh, and the win difference between the Spurs and Grizzlies was 15. Then win difference between the 81 Lakers and the 81 Rockets is 14. Not much of a difference at all?

Like I said, I'm surprised Duncan got ahead of Magic. But it's not at all ludicrous, which is what you said. You made your point for Magic, fine. But you did nothing to show any "ridiculous" gap. Just that he won the titles in less years against better Finalists. Duncan won the exact same amount against better Western teams, and you have to go through three of those (in Magic's early years, two) before you meet the Eastern team. The whole point about Magic doing it in 8 years is moot. If Jordan 3-Peated in his first three years and then died would that make him better than some other player winning 3 rings in 20 years? Of course not, because the second player gives you an extra 17 years to potentially win. It's a little concept called longevity, which is exactly why Kareem is so greatly regarded.

When you boil it down, Duncan won the same with less help against better competition. That alone puts him in the Magic tier.

[Y2ktors]

Ah, of course. When it's Magic winning you mention how few years it took.

Didn't mention that he lost to the lower seed like 4 times in just 11 years though? Oh, and the win difference between the Spurs and Grizzlies was 15. Then win difference between the 81 Lakers and the 81 Rockets is 14. Not much of a difference at all?

Like I said, I'm surprised Duncan got ahead of Magic. But it's not at all ludicrous, which is what you said. You made your point for Magic, fine. But you did nothing to show any "ridiculous" gap. Just that he won the titles in less years against better Finalists. Duncan won the exact same amount against better Western teams, and you have to go through three of those (in Magic's early years, two) before you meet the Eastern team. The whole point about Magic doing it in 8 years is moot. If Jordan 3-Peated in his first three years and then died would that make him better than some other player winning 3 rings in 20 years? Of course not, because the second player gives you an extra 17 years to potentially win. It's a little concept called longevity, which is exactly why Kareem is so greatly regarded.

When you boil it down, Duncan won the same with less help against better competition. That alone puts him in the Magic tier.

Better competition my butt. Stop trying to compare Magic's competition across the board as if all of them were like 1987. True he did face, at times, lesser competition in his conference but NEVER as bad in the Finals like Duncan in 99, 03 and 07.

Don't even compare peaks.

The point on shorter playoff series until 1984 is rather minute seeing that it was only 4 years but you can have it.

To diss the guy who had a immense, everlasting impact on the NBA in his short time from 79-91 over Duncan, who's had an excellent career in his own right, but had no where near the same impact on the game, is just like I said: a ****ing joke.


*While disgusted, I do understand that these lists are all subjective.

[Big#50]

Magic played with a top five player of all time. He was not even better than Bird. Magic and The Lakers had a free ticket to the finals every ****ing year. Magic played no defense. All this bullshit about him being greater because of his iconic status is phucking stupid. He was not a top five player ever.

[LAZERUSS]

Magic played with a top five player of all time. He was not even better than Bird. Magic and The Lakers had a free ticket to the finals every ****ing year. Magic played no defense. All this bullshit about him being greater because of his iconic status is phucking stupid. He was not a top five player ever.

Yep...after Kareem retired Magic, and the Lakers went into the toilet. Oh, sure they went 63-19 the season immediately after that, but, they were knocked off in the second round by a crappy 54-28 Phoenix team that had Tom Chambers, Kevin Johnson, Jeff Hornacek, and Dan Majerle. Oh, in with his team down 2-1 in that series, all Magic could do was to put up back-to-back 43 point games, each on 15-26 shooting from the field, and a combined 26-28 from the line.

Then, the very next season, which would be his last until a brief comeback a few years later...he led an injury-riddled, and declining, Lakers team to a 58-24 record, which included a 3-0 blowout over Hakeem's 52-30 Rockets, and in the clinching game, all Magic could do was hang a 38 point game, on 14-20 FG/FGA and 9-9 FT/FTA. Then, in the WCF's, he took his under-dog Lakers to an upset over the 63-19 Blazers. True, they lost to the 61-21 Bulls in the Finals, but both Worthy and Scott were injured (and Scott was basically worthless.)

So, what happened after Magic retired? The Lakers went 43-39. Then, just to prove it was no fluke, they followed that season up with a 39-43 record.

[tmacattack33]

Yep...after Kareem retired Magic, and the Lakers went into the toilet. Oh, sure they went 63-19 the season immediately after that, but, they were knocked off in the second round by a crappy 54-28 Phoenix team that had Tom Chambers, Kevin Johnson, Jeff Hornacek, and Dan Majerle. Oh, in with his team down 2-1 in that series, all Magic could do was to put up back-to-back 43 point games, each on 15-26 shooting from the field, and a combined 26-28 from the line.

Then, the very next season, which would be his last until a brief comeback a few years later...he led an injury-riddled, and declining, Lakers team to a 58-24 record, which included a 3-0 blowout over Hakeem's 52-30 Rockets, and in the clinching game, all Magic could do was hang a 38 point game, on 14-20 FG/FGA and 9-9 FT/FTA. Then, in the WCF's, he took his under-dog Lakers to an upset over the 63-19 Blazers. True, they lost to the 61-21 Bulls in the Finals, but both Worthy and Scott were injured (and Scott was basically worthless.)

So, what happened after Magic retired? The Lakers went 43-39. Then, just to prove it was no fluke, they followed that season up with a 39-43 record.

[LAZERUSS]

BTW, Magic's career W-L percentage was .740. WithOUT Kareem... .743.

[navy]

Yep...after Kareem retired Magic, and the Lakers went into the toilet. Oh, sure they went 63-19 the season immediately after that, but, they were knocked off in the second round by a crappy 54-28 Phoenix team that had Tom Chambers, Kevin Johnson, Jeff Hornacek, and Dan Majerle. Oh, in with his team down 2-1 in that series, all Magic could do was to put up back-to-back 43 point games, each on 15-26 shooting from the field, and a combined 26-28 from the line.

Then, the very next season, which would be his last until a brief comeback a few years later...he led an injury-riddled, and declining, Lakers team to a 58-24 record, which included a 3-0 blowout over Hakeem's 52-30 Rockets, and in the clinching game, all Magic could do was hang a 38 point game, on 14-20 FG/FGA and 9-9 FT/FTA. Then, in the WCF's, he took his under-dog Lakers to an upset over the 63-19 Blazers. True, they lost to the 61-21 Bulls in the Finals, but both Worthy and Scott were injured (and Scott was basically worthless.)

So, what happened after Magic retired? The Lakers went 43-39. Then, just to prove it was no fluke, they followed that season up with a 39-43 record.