Religion aside, abortion is wrong. All babies deserve a chance to live

[Nick Young]

If it has no consciousness its not even alive. Get your voodoo hoodoo out of here. If a woman gets pregnant, she doesn't owe it to anyone to let the little shit grow up inside her if she doesn't want it to. A woman shouldn't force herself to suffer just to appease some superstitious nutjobs she doesn't even know.

[Orlando Magic]

Blah.

[Godzuki]

Then dont get pregnant then you stupid cu.nt. Unless you have been raped, no one is forcing you to have sex without being suitably protected. If you get pregnant accidentally there is no one to blame but yourself, unless like I said you have been raped. You have to handle the situation and take care of the child, not kill it.

I would rather be in a home or a orphanage and have a chance at experiencing life than never be born at all.

yo you read what i write? what about the dude? isn't the decision half his, or some his when he is expected to pay child support if she keeps it? there goes like half his earnings for the next 18~ years or whatever...

its so easy to get someone pregnant, happens all of the time. to think everyone is just supposed to be responsible what reality are some of y'all living in....

its just some really fukked up shit when religious people, or whatever right wing people pretend to tell a female she HAS to have her baby

[Orlando Magic]

I am a libertarian and I can't pretend I have all of the answers, because I don't.

However, I think there are only a few gray areas around abortion... 1) it's a known threat to the mother to continue on with the pregnancy and 2) rape.

In the case of rape, I don't think they should abort, but I understand if they do. No judgement from me. Tough situation.

In the case of threat to life of the mother, you've got my green light. But I still feel wrong about it.

People who just go out and **** or get drunk and **** and end up pregnant accidentally or are just too lazy to use birth control should not be allowed to abort.

With very few exceptions, it all boils down to if you think people should be responsible for their own actions or not.

[Godzuki]

Abortion is wrong, and the women who do it know it.

Consciously or subconsciously, women can not get an abortion without it affecting them. A lot pretend they can, but they can't. It's not possible.

Hell, guys can't even jerk off without it affecting their emotional state on a subconscious or conscious level. Excessive jerking off(and by this I mean even just once daily or even multiple times a week... difficult to put a number on it) leads to MAJOR spiritual... emotional... psychological... problems.

And then you want to talk about willingly terminating something that you KNOW is going to turn into life. Not just a small chance to, but almost an iron clad guarantee.

If you are religious, great, there shouldn't be much of an argument here. People that are pro choice that claim to be believers typically are not believers and thus should see my next point.

If you are not religious, and view everything we know as evolutionary with no God, you should still be able to consciously put together the fact that you are doing the species a disservice by hindering its' progress, and thus it is going to affect you subconsciously.

Without God, you have to concede that morals are meaningless and are nothing other than a set of principles developed over time by ourselves in order to further the species, and nothing more, because they weren't there at the beginning.

Shooting a 3 year old kid is on level ground with helping an old lady across the street. Neither mean anything. What? You think those principles just always existed without God? You think that any "morality" that you have actually means anything at all?

Point is... religious or not religious, it's going to emotionally affect you because it's wrong. It's wrong because you know it's wrong and it's instilled in us deeply, be it divinely or through evolution, even if you won't admit it.

oh please...

its a practical solution VS someone knowing they don't want a kid, or can't raise one.

simple as that.

people can be caring or have morals without religion, but morals can also be more practically thought of than pretending something unborn is murder. in fact most crazy extremist type people tend to think abortion is murder...most normal people don't unless they're religiious.

[Orlando Magic]

oh please...

its a practical solution VS someone knowing they don't want a kid, or can't raise one.

simple as that.

people can be caring or have morals without religion, but morals can also be more practically thought of than pretending something unborn is murder. in fact most crazy extremist type people tend to think abortion is murder...most normal people don't unless they're religiious.

Of course people can be caring and have morals without religion. That wasn't my point.

My point was without God, morals don't actually mean anything because they are nothing other than something we developed to succeed as a species and I deleted my post because I realized I had gotten sidetracked.

[Godzuki]

I am a libertarian and I can't pretend I have all of the answers, because I don't.

However, I think there are only a few gray areas around abortion... 1) it's a known threat to the mother to continue on with the pregnancy and 2) rape.

In the case of rape, I don't think they should abort, but I understand if they do. No judgement from me. Tough situation.

In the case of threat to life of the mother, you've got my green light. But I still feel wrong about it.

People who just go out and **** or get drunk and **** and end up pregnant accidentally or are just too lazy to use birth control should not be allowed to abort.

people who go out and fukk and get drunk and accidentally have a kid should be the FIRST to be allowed to abort.

WTF kind of backwards thinking do u have going on in that brain of yours?

[Draz]

Recently found out a few years ago my mother when she was pregnant for me tried many things to get rid of me. She said she went to the abortion doctor back in my country and he had asked if this would be the first child, her response was yes. He told her to get out and not to come back, to have the baby. He refused to give the abortion to her.

Ever since my perspective changed, because I wouldn't be here. But, it hasn't changed to the point where I'd be against it. This is probably the most touchy subject.

[Godzuki]

Of course people can be caring and have morals without religion. That wasn't my point.

My point was without God, morals don't actually mean anything because they are nothing other than something we developed to succeed as a species and I deleted my post because I realized I had gotten sidetracked.

thats ridiculous. with or without God morals are morals. they're a standard to live by....call it ethics.

[Orlando Magic]

thats ridiculous. with or without God morals are morals. they're a standard to live by....call it ethics.

What I'm trying to communicate is that if God didn't put them there, where'd they come from, and thus what do they mean?

[Godzuki]

Recently found out a few years ago my mother when she was pregnant for me tried many things to get rid of me. She said she went to the abortion doctor back in my country and he had asked if this would be the first child, her response was yes. He told her to get out and not to come back, to have the baby. He refused to give the abortion to her.

Ever since my perspective changed, because I wouldn't be here. But, it hasn't changed to the point where I'd be against it. This is probably the most touchy subject.

if i found that out about myself i'd just be like it is what it is...i was born. that was destiny. wouldn't change my views at all.

free will to make your own choices is something everyone should fight for, not society forcing THEIR choice on you. its the principle of that, relative to this issue, that really bothers me.

[Orlando Magic]

if i found that out about myself i'd just be like it is what it is...i was born. that was destiny. wouldn't change my views at all.

free will to make your own choices is something everyone should fight for, not society forcing THEIR choice on you. its the principle of that, relative to this issue, that really bothers me.

You believe in destiny and not God? Fascinating.

[Godzuki]

You believe in destiny and not God? Fascinating.

lol yes...basically the way life goes....thats destiny to me. it can happen without God.

so can human ethics/morals...its about being a decent human being.

nobody needs religion for any of that shit.

[Nowitness]

What I'm trying to communicate is that if God didn't put them there, where'd they come from, and thus what do they mean?

They came from society agreeing on certain standards to make living as easy as possible. If your argument is the ten commandments what were we doing for the first 98,000 years or so of our modern existence? If you're saying he made them innate in us prove it.

[Orlando Magic]

lol yes...basically the way life goes....thats destiny to me. it can happen without God.

so can human ethics/morals...its about being a decent human being.

nobody needs religion for any of that shit.

Intellectually, you are not on my level, as you have repeatedly failed to answer the simple question of where morals came from and what they mean if God didn't instill them. Hint: I already gave you the answer.