Religion aside, abortion is wrong. All babies deserve a chance to live

[Meticode]

Umm yeah... Mr. Hankey and his kids

Exactly.

[Meticode]

Sometimes the most beautiful things come from letting people make their own decisions. Sometimes they don't. I can live in a world like that. If you can't, that's your own feelings towards it and I respect that.

Touch

[Graviton]

[QUOTE=Meticode]Touch

[BrownEye007]

http://youtu.be/gEFMjN3sTHU Funny song on the subject

[BoutPractice]

It is definitely a trickier issue than any ready made ideology will acknowledge.

Liberals especially need to face a contradiction: they tend to argue for care of the environment on grounds that we have a moral duty towards future generations. I don't think they're wrong... (I also agree with conservatives that we have a duty to protect the past... we should take the past, present AND future in consideration when making important decisions because the past used to be the present and the future will soon be... some kind of time "discount" is logical, complete elimination from the picture of times other than the current fleeting present is not)

But the problem is, how do you reconcile that with the view that it's OK to actively prevent future human life from emerging?

I think it's a great example of a more general tension in liberal thinking that liberals won't usually admit to, between the right of present day choice they champion, and considerations of the future consequences of those choices they also champion whenever talking about the environment, or wars...

The two imperatives don't always contradict, but sometimes they do, and liberals will often act like the tension just isn't there.

Of course the reverse is true... the current "conservative libertarian" approach to those issues is just as puzzling as the liberal approach. In the economic realm, people should just do whatever they want, with no regard for human or moral consequences, much less for any impact on the planet... that's usually the "libertarian" part of the right wing. But in the social realm, suddenly we should police things that people do out of consideration for the consequences, even though those consequences are precisely much less consequential than in that other realm where they advocate for unfettered freedom.

Whichever way we look at it, our views on those issues are typically poorly justified, and don't pass first examination...

[JtotheIzzo]

its 2014, people should have babies when they want and when they are ready.

calling it murder is ridiculous.

[BoutPractice]

For the record, by the way, I'm pro-choice when it comes down to it... but there's nothing simple about the issue. There are real ethical dilemmas involved, that you can't just casually dismiss... I agree with liberals on many issues, but as social liberalism especially is gaining ground in the US, we're beginning to see a lot of "unthinking" liberalism where people just blindly repeat what they're told.

That unthinking variety of those beliefs I agree with terrifies me. If you're a young American from the city, you need to be pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, pro-legalization of weed... otherwise you're a reactionary killjoy if not an evil bastard that deserves to be ostracized. That's what it boils down to... it's the new consensus, and you need to get with the times or else.

Reminds me that, while people can be persuaded to adopt sound views (as in those particular instances), they could just as easily be persuaded to agree to something completely monstrous, if we just shoved it down their throats... As has been shown time and time again in the past. And just because it's 2014 doesn't mean that we've evolved past that.

[Godzuki]

i'm pro choice

anyone can fukk and create embryos

until every pro life person is willing to take care of unwanted kids/babies people need to stfu from their self righteous hypocritical clouds. there is pain in life like starvation, homelessness cold, lack of love from foster parents, etc, etc. but i guess it only matters when its a fetus?

you bring someone into the world you should be responsible for that someone. too bad the world doesn't work that perfectly, so we deal with it in imperfect, practical ways.

[outbreak]

anyone who thinks abortion is wrong based on all babies deserving a chance better not be *********ing any time soon. There's more real issues in the world that people should be worrying about and trying to fix. A persons body is their own and they should have the right to do whatever they want with a fetus that doesn't even have a mind yet.

[Nowitness]

whether you're ready or not, stable or poor, you can not get rid of these embryos of clean slate minds.

Adopt a crack baby or have a black fetus transferred into your girls uterus then reply.

[sweggeh]

A lot of retards in this thread. The only people who can actually campaign for pro choice are rape victims or people with children that will come out extremely disabled and have no chance of a good life. Everyone else who just had "an accident" has to deal with the error and care for the child. It doesnt matter what age the child is, when the sperm and egg meet that there is a child, whether it looks like it or not. Only people campaigning pro choice are sluts who want to suck dudes di.cks and get penetrated without a condom the f*ckin whores. There is literally no other reason to campaign for it unless you are a rape victim or there is something wrong with the child. They should just admit it and say yes we are sluts and we swallow litres of *** a night and we dont want kids but we cant change our ways. Just admit it.

[Take Your Lumps]

Here's my stance. If there is brain activity at the time, you shouldn't abort the baby. If there's no brain activity yet, I think the mother should have the choice.

Human death is characterized by the ceasing of brain activity, right? Well, human life should be characterized by the beginning of brain activity (typically around the 12th week of pregnancy).

[sweggeh]

Here's my stance. If there is brain activity at the time, you shouldn't abort the baby. If there's no brain activity yet, I think the mother should have the choice.

Human death is characterized by the ceasing of brain activity, right? Well, human life should be characterized by the beginning of brain activity (typically around the 12th week of pregnancy).

Nope. When brain activity ceases, that is the end. There is no comeback as far as we know so it is feasible to say that person is done for. For a fetus the brain activity is there just not fully realised yet or grown to the point that is becomes something significant. Its not the same thing at all.

[Godzuki]

A lot of retards in this thread. The only people who can actually campaign for pro choice are rape victims or people with children that will come out extremely disabled and have no chance of a good life. Everyone else who just had "an accident" has to deal with the error and care for the child. It doesnt matter what age the child is, when the sperm and egg meet that there is a child, whether it looks like it or not. Only people campaigning pro choice are sluts who want to suck dudes di.cks and get penetrated without a condom the f*ckin whores. There is literally no other reason to campaign for it unless you are a rape victim or there is something wrong with the child. They should just admit it and say yes we are sluts and we swallow litres of *** a night and we dont want kids but we cant change our ways. Just admit it.

damn you're one stupid mf'er

i mean i can at least get the religious argument even if its fukkiin dumb but relligious people are like that with their convictions even if it goes against practical reality....but for you to pretend nobody should care but the pregnant woman...how about the guy that knocked her up? who has to pay paternity?

...and i could go on and on to us paying for this kid when nobody wants it after they abandon it to it becoming some jaded poorly raised kid in and out of the adoption system, and eventually a menace to society.

i mean jesus christ bro, thats some shallow shit.

[sweggeh]

damn you're one stupid mf'er

i mean i can at least get the religious argument even if its fukkiin dumb but relligious people are like that with their convictions even if it goes against practical reality....but for you to pretend nobody should care but the pregnant woman...how about the guy that knocked her up? who has to pay paternity?

...and i could go on and on to us paying for this kid when nobody wants it after they abandon it to it becoming some jaded poorly raised kid in and out of the adoption system, and eventually a menace to society.

i mean jesus christ bro, thats some shallow shit.

Then dont get pregnant then you stupid cu.nt. Unless you have been raped, no one is forcing you to have sex without being suitably protected. If you get pregnant accidentally there is no one to blame but yourself, unless like I said you have been raped. You have to handle the situation and take care of the child, not kill it.

I would rather be in a home or a orphanage and have a chance at experiencing life than never be born at all.