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  1. #1
    XXL Im Still Ballin's Avatar
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    Arrow Why the Low Post Offense has declined


    Why the Low Post Offense has declined

    Everybody knows this. Long gone are the giants whom ruled the paint, who mastered the art of the low block; their myths and legends of a time when a hard foul wasn't a suspension and a 10 grand fee, and attitude was encouraged.

    Far gone are these days. Gone with them are the fundamental scoring option for the big men, a tool once sought after for success, now barely even a though... Much more apparent are the 3pt shot, and the drive to the hoop. Only a few today still effectively utilize the dance moves down at the low block, but it can only work given his teammates possess specific skills and abilities. But first. Why did the low post offense decline? There are a handful of reasons that contributed to the demise of 'disco' on the block. Lets go over these crucial points to help us illustrate the truth of the matter.

    1. Rule changes:
    This is the obviously and most important point. These rule changes have had an INSANE impact on every aspect of the NBA; the bigmen probably got hit the hardest by these changes. You can blame Shaq for most of this.


    - Thanks a lot Shaq!

    In the 90's the Illegal defense rule schemes forced defenses to play man to man, weak/strong zones were not allowed... Defenses had their hands tied behind their back. It also did not allow the doubling of an off-ball player, usually a big with good post position. You could double the ball handler but it had to be an aggressive attempt, any otherwise would be deemed illegal. What all this means for low post players is that, they could get a good position on the block without being disrupted. There also was no 5 second back to the basket rule that exists now (AKA the Kevin Johnson rule).


    - Notice the single coverage, open paint

    In 2000 strong side zones were permitted, and in 2001 all types of zones were legal. Defenses were given more freedom. What this did was allow for more advanced defending schemes; today defenses are faster and smarter than ever before. It's incredibly hard for a limbering 7 footer to get good post position and adequate room to score when defenses are rotating and effectively doubling the block while still being able to cover the open man quick enough. Thus gone, were the days of the Illegal defense, the offensive ratings that were exponentially increasing from the 80's to the late 90's began to start to dip as defenses were finally allowed to fight back.


    - Good luck trying to penetrate with this soft zone Kobe!

    The other big rule changes of the past 20 years has been the nullification of hand-checking which more has to do with perimeter players and defending them. Hand-checking is essentially defending a post up anyways.... Forearm and all. This rule change was needed as the NBA product had become stale, popularity was decreasing, record defensive ratings where being recorded, the NBA had to give back more freedom to the offenses. They have done so and now there is a good medium between offense and defense.


    - Hand-checking in the 80's

    SUMMARY (1)
    - Illegal defense rules scheme in the 90's = single coverage, no zones, easy to get post position, late double teams
    - 5 second back to the basket rule implemented = limited the time allowed backing down in the post
    - 2000 and 2001 = Illegal defenses rule scheme removed, all types of zones legal now, more defensive freedom
    - Hand-checking removal = More focus on perimeter scoring

    2. The Jordan/Iverson Effect
    "I was lucky to grow up in Italy at a time when basketball in America was getting ****ed up with AAU shuffling players through on strength and athleticism. I missed all that, and instead I was taught extreme fundamentals: footwork, footwork, footwork, how to create space, how to handle the ball, how to protect the ball, how to shoot the ball." -Kobe Bryant


    - Everybody wanted to be like Mike

    Jordan and Iverson were two of the coolest players to ever play in the NBA, their impacts spread far far from just the court. Jordan was doing movies and dominating shoe sales, and AI was holding his own very well, an average height man dominating in a league of giants. Both were flashy and winners too. Naturally people imitate the popular, copy their moves, wear their shoes, watch their ads and movies. A historic league that was once forged upon the fundamentals of the game, cohering as a team, had now slowly but surely became about the individual. The rules were deliberately made to encourage this. Little did they know that they would damage the reputation and quality of play for years to come. It would take multiples years and different rule changes for offenses and team play to return.


    - Damn, this homie is COOL!

    The impact was real. The NBA is heralded as the highest level of competition on the planet, so naturally the basketball world would follow suite. Kids no longer wanted to bang down low like Kareem or Wilt. They wanted to do the fancy cross overs, dribble moves, and shoot fade-aways like Mike. Bigs wanted to be flashy like the little guys. Some pros showed this as well, like Chris Webber, renowned for being flashy yet negligent of his inside game.

    SUMMARY (2)
    - AAU focusing on athleticism/strength opposed to fundamentals
    - Michael Jordan and Iverson; cool basketballers with huge impacts on the basketball world
    - isolation, 1 on 1 orientated league

    3. Posting up Today
    Low post offense is not dead. It can still work today, but there needs to be specific parameter met in order for it to be efficient and usable in a team offence. Defenses are better than ever. There is now a equilibrium between the freedom of the offense and of the defense. The removal of Illegal defense, the removal of hand-checking... Physicality is no longer masked as 'good defense'. In this day and age, physicality usually ends up in a technical foul and a fine. This is good; defense shouldn't be football, it should be basketball, team orientated, floor coverage.

    The game is much larger now. The whole court has to be used if one hopes to be a contender. Defenses now are just too good to let offenses get away with one dimensional scoring patterns. That is why spacing and shooting (particularly the 3pt shot) is crucial to success. The Miami Heat big three team was really the first to bring about this play style focus, and now most teams in the league have shades of that team.

    Post ups now need to be quick, aware of all 5 players on the court and their defenders. It can only work well with the right amount of shooting to spread the defense. Time is usually not in the post players favor. Good post position at times can be difficult because of the defensive freedom (other times easy due to spacing from shooters), it really depends on the quality of the offense and defense on the court. There aren't many Charles Barkley backing down from the 3pt line possessions any more. A few good examples of players who post up well today; Demarcus Cousins, Zach Randolph, Al Jefferson, Marc Gasol.


    - Good defense but better offense from the best center in the league

    SUMMARY (3)
    - Spacing/Shooting is crucial for efficient low post success
    - Post players need to be quick + aware of all 5 players on the court
    - Work with the team for good post position

    All in all, the game has evolved. Is this good? Is this bad? Who knows for sure. Some prefer the bruising style of play and some appreciate the slick ball movement and shooting. I'm Still Ballin.

  2. #2
    XXL Im Still Ballin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the Low Post Offense has declined

    Quote Originally Posted by Im Still Ballin

    Why the Low Post Offense has declined

    Everybody knows this. Long gone are the giants whom ruled the paint, who mastered the art of the low block; their myths and legends of a time when a hard foul wasn't a suspension and a 10 grand fee, and attitude was encouraged.

    Far gone are these days. Gone with them are the fundamental scoring option for the big men, a tool once sought after for success, now barely even a though... Much more apparent are the 3pt shot, and the drive to the hoop. Only a few today still effectively utilize the dance moves down at the low block, but it can only work given his teammates possess specific skills and abilities. But first. Why did the low post offense decline? There are a handful of reasons that contributed to the demise of 'disco' on the block. Lets go over these crucial points to help us illustrate the truth of the matter.

    1. Rule changes:
    This is the obviously and most important point. These rule changes have had an INSANE impact on every aspect of the NBA; the bigmen probably got hit the hardest by these changes. You can blame Shaq for most of this.


    - Thanks a lot Shaq!

    In the 90's the Illegal defense rule schemes forced defenses to play man to man, weak/strong zones were not allowed... Defenses had their hands tied behind their back. It also did not allow the doubling of an off-ball player, usually a big with good post position. You could double the ball handler but it had to be an aggressive attempt, any otherwise would be deemed illegal. What all this means for low post players is that, they could get a good position on the block without being disrupted. There also was no 5 second back to the basket rule that exists now (AKA the Kevin Johnson rule).


    - Notice the single coverage, open paint

    In 2000 strong side zones were permitted, and in 2001 all types of zones were legal. Defenses were given more freedom. What this did was allow for more advanced defending schemes; today defenses are faster and smarter than ever before. It's incredibly hard for a limbering 7 footer to get good post position and adequate room to score when defenses are rotating and effectively doubling the block while still being able to cover the open man quick enough. Thus gone, were the days of the Illegal defense, the offensive ratings that were exponentially increasing from the 80's to the late 90's began to start to dip as defenses were finally allowed to fight back.


    - Good luck trying to penetrate with this soft zone Kobe!

    The other big rule changes of the past 20 years has been the nullification of hand-checking which more has to do with perimeter players and defending them. Hand-checking is essentially defending a post up anyways.... Forearm and all. This rule change was needed as the NBA product had become stale, popularity was decreasing, record defensive ratings where being recorded, the NBA had to give back more freedom to the offenses. They have done so and now there is a good medium between offense and defense.


    - Hand-checking in the 80's

    SUMMARY (1)
    - Illegal defense rules scheme in the 90's = single coverage, no zones, easy to get post position, late double teams
    - 5 second back to the basket rule implemented = limited the time allowed backing down in the post
    - 2000 and 2001 = Illegal defenses rule scheme removed, all types of zones legal now, more defensive freedom
    - Hand-checking removal = More focus on perimeter scoring

    2. The Jordan/Iverson Effect
    "I was lucky to grow up in Italy at a time when basketball in America was getting ****ed up with AAU shuffling players through on strength and athleticism. I missed all that, and instead I was taught extreme fundamentals: footwork, footwork, footwork, how to create space, how to handle the ball, how to protect the ball, how to shoot the ball." -Kobe Bryant


    - Everybody wanted to be like Mike

    Jordan and Iverson were two of the coolest players to ever play in the NBA, their impacts spread far far from just the court. Jordan was doing movies and dominating shoe sales, and AI was holding his own very well, an average height man dominating in a league of giants. Both were flashy and winners too. Naturally people imitate the popular, copy their moves, wear their shoes, watch their ads and movies. A historic league that was once forged upon the fundamentals of the game, cohering as a team, had now slowly but surely became about the individual. The rules were deliberately made to encourage this. Little did they know that they would damage the reputation and quality of play for years to come. It would take multiples years and different rule changes for offenses and team play to return.


    - Damn, this homie is COOL!

    The impact was real. The NBA is heralded as the highest level of competition on the planet, so naturally the basketball world would follow suite. Kids no longer wanted to bang down low like Kareem or Wilt. They wanted to do the fancy cross overs, dribble moves, and shoot fade-aways like Mike. Bigs wanted to be flashy like the little guys. Some pros showed this as well, like Chris Webber, renowned for being flashy yet negligent of his inside game.

    SUMMARY (2)
    - AAU focusing on athleticism/strength opposed to fundamentals
    - Michael Jordan and Iverson; cool basketballers with huge impacts on the basketball world
    - isolation, 1 on 1 orientated league

    3. Posting up Today
    Low post offense is not dead. It can still work today, but there needs to be specific parameter met in order for it to be efficient and usable in a team offence. Defenses are better than ever. There is now a equilibrium between the freedom of the offense and of the defense. The removal of Illegal defense, the removal of hand-checking... Physicality is no longer masked as 'good defense'. In this day and age, physicality usually ends up in a technical foul and a fine. This is good; defense shouldn't be football, it should be basketball, team orientated, floor coverage.

    The game is much larger now. The whole court has to be used if one hopes to be a contender. Defenses now are just too good to let offenses get away with one dimensional scoring patterns. That is why spacing and shooting (particularly the 3pt shot) is crucial to success. The Miami Heat big three team was really the first to bring about this play style focus, and now most teams in the league have shades of that team.

    Post ups now need to be quick, aware of all 5 players on the court and their defenders. It can only work well with the right amount of shooting to spread the defense. Time is usually not in the post players favor. Good post position at times can be difficult because of the defensive freedom (other times easy due to spacing from shooters), it really depends on the quality of the offense and defense on the court. There aren't many Charles Barkley backing down from the 3pt line possessions any more. A few good examples of players who post up well today; Demarcus Cousins, Zach Randolph, Al Jefferson, Marc Gasol.


    - Good defense but better offense from the best center in the league

    SUMMARY (3)
    - Spacing/Shooting is crucial for efficient low post success
    - Post players need to be quick + aware of all 5 players on the court
    - Work with the team for good post position

    All in all, the game has evolved. Is this good? Is this bad? Who knows for sure. Some prefer the bruising style of play and some appreciate the slick ball movement and shooting. I'm Still Ballin.

  3. #3
    Verticle? plowking's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the Low Post Offense has declined

    Great post. Waiting for 80's and 90's idiots to comment and tell you it was harder for superstars back then, despite all statistics saying otherwise.

  4. #4
    Bear Chested Da Brawn STATUTORY's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the Low Post Offense has declined

    Quote Originally Posted by plowking
    Great post. Waiting for 80's and 90's idiots to comment and tell you it was harder for superstars back then, despite all statistics saying otherwise.
    they will post some gifs of hard fouls to conflate physicality with defense

  5. #5
    XXL Im Still Ballin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the Low Post Offense has declined

    3ball you are denied access into my thread

  6. #6
    Raps Sakkreth's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the Low Post Offense has declined

    Conclusion: D-Mo would be a superstar before 2000s

  7. #7
    Devin Booker MVP Prime_Shaq's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the Low Post Offense has declined

    Thanks Shaq

  8. #8
    I usually hit open layups
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    Default Re: Why the Low Post Offense has declined

    Great and informative post. I agree that physicality (handchecking) =/= good defense. It can be used to send a good message to the opponent though.

  9. #9
    Very good NBA starter
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    Default Re: Why the Low Post Offense has declined

    Shaw and Hakeem routinely got double team.

  10. #10
    NBA Legend kuniva_dAMiGhTy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the Low Post Offense has declined

    tldr; Jordan/Kareem/Hakeem/Shaq would all be the best players in no particular order, except only definitively better than LeBron.

  11. #11
    XXL Im Still Ballin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the Low Post Offense has declined

    Quote Originally Posted by juju151111
    Shaw and Hakeem routinely got double team.
    I never said he didn't. You couldn't double team someone off the ball... Hence one could get good post position (doesn't have the ball yet) without being doubled.

  12. #12
    Rose is not a HOF Beastmode88's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the Low Post Offense has declined

    No garnett gif today?

  13. #13
    infamous souvlaki SugarHill's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the Low Post Offense has declined

    Quote Originally Posted by Im Still Ballin
    3ball you are denied access into my thread

  14. #14
    It is what it is TheMan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the Low Post Offense has declined

    Quote Originally Posted by Im Still Ballin
    I never said he didn't. You couldn't double team someone off the ball... Hence one could get good post position (doesn't have the ball yet) without being doubled.
    You do realize that doubling up on a post player or even shading to a post player whether he has the ball or not already leaves a defense in bad position, right? Not every team has these mythical quick close out defensive studs you seem to think every team today has Double teaming a low post player leaves you vulnerable to an open three point shot or if the defense tries to close out too aggressively, the shooter can pump fake and put the defense on it's heels by getting past his man. Anyways, post up players aren't that great to demand a double team today, coaches are fine with letting Marc Gasol go one on one but you absolutely would get destroyed if you let Shaq go one on one...big difference.

    The reason you don't really see much double teaming on the low post today is because the best low post players today, while they are nice low block.scorers, they are nowhere near as good as th elite low post scorers of the 80s and 90s. Duncan has the best low post moves and he's 58 years old FFS.

    Shaq would destroy the league today or at worst, he'd get his teammates a TON of open looks. Face it, the lack of elite quality low post bigs is still the biggest reason why big men today aren't what they used to be. KAJ, DRob, Patrick Ewing, Moses Malone, Charles Barkley, Hakeem Olajuwon would still own in today's game, regardless of the rule changes. Way too much talent and skill for that not to happen.

    Lastly, I've seen you get into it with 3Ball and he owns your soul...you've resorted to trying to bite his style too
    Last edited by TheMan; 03-08-2015 at 12:37 PM.

  15. #15
    XXL Im Still Ballin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Why the Low Post Offense has declined

    He's going to show up with atleast 5 GIFs and multiple paragraphs

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