Kobe 1 for 18, LeBron 4 for 11

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Very interesting. I responded to a Kobe fan saying that I shouldn't say 2/7 because Shaq won Finals MVP 3 times, and then a Kobe stan in a different argument saying that those 3 rings matter as much as Lebron the man, because in this argument it benefits Kobe, while in the previous argument the Shaq rings didn't benefit him.

Each argument is dumb (and short sided). Kobe's 5 rings matter, just like LeBron's MVPs do.

When you add everything together, they've both been pretty succesful. I have them @ #9 and #10 all-time, respectfully.

[Dragonyeuw]

I'm all but ready to declare the MVP award useless in these types of debates. For one, Steve Nash has the same amount of MVPs as Kobe and Shaq combined. That alone should bring the award into question when it comes to these kinds of debates.

Also, context. Lebron has won the bulk of his MVPs during a transition phase of the late 90s/2000s stars exiting their prime, and the more modern talents like Dwight( hasn't been MVP caliber in 2-3 years), Melo, Durant being his main MVP competition now. Rose is injured, a legit MVP candidate from 3-4 years ago in D/Wade is now on his team and no longer MVP material due to age and injuries etc etc.

Kobe's prime coincided with that of Shaq, Duncan, Garnett, Orlando Tmac, Iverson, Webber, prime Wade, Dirk and Lebron entering his own peak/prime... I mean the disparity in competition makes any MVP comparisons pointless. You can't penalize Lebron for playing in the era he's in, but you can't discount that the conditions are there for him to amass MVP after MVP. Kobe legitimately has 4 other seasons where he could have been MVP ( 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009) but the voters felt otherwise.

[Droid101]

[Ne 1]

He was 22, the Spurs completely overmatched his team, with him being the sole focus of the defense. It helps my argument more than any other year. Compare his lack of help, he being the sole focus, to Kobe's Finals career.

Go back and watch that series and look at how Pop defended James. He had Bruce Bowen sag off about 30 feet and let LeBron shot jumpers and he did nothing about it becuase he had no midrange game. Yeah, he was 22, but he was physically the most NBA ready player ever to come out of high school. If you want you can chalk it up to him being inexperienced and still learning the playoff ropes if you want. But the fact is that while he averaged 22/7/7, he shot 35% from the field, 20% on 3's and 69% from the line while averaging 6 turnovers per game and on 23 shots per game. Horrendous for a player of James' caliber. Part of that was him being exposed as a terrible shooter. (For the entire season, he shot just 34.6% from 16-23 feet, 31.9% on 3s and 69.8% from the line.) but as I said, he wasn't in his prime yet so I don't judge him too much because of that.

[Droid101]

Go back and watch that series and look at how Pop defended James. He had Bruce Bowen sag off about 30 feet and let LeBron shot jumpers and he did nothing about it becuase he had no midrange game.

Try to imagine Pop trying to have Bowen guard 22 year old Kobe like that.

[Heavincent]

It helps my argument more than any other year.

No it doesn't.

[jstern]

No it doesn't.

Lebron being the leader of a shitty team at 22 being the focus of the defense vs an elite San Antonio team, compared to Kobe being 2/7, Lakers being favorites, playing with hall of famers, not even having to be the man of his team, thus only two Final MVPs, which should have been 1.

[RoundMoundOfReb]

Has Kobe really been in the league for 18 years... wow

[crisoner]

Let's see...

Winning regular season MVP's that are voting on

OR

Winning titles



Winning titles please

5/2 > 2/3

[Ne 1]

a shitty team

Gross exaggeration. If they were so shitty, how did they manage to help him get past Detroit? How is it that they managed to stay competitive with the Spurs (only lost by 3 points in games 3 and 1 point game 4) with LeBron shooting 39% and 33%? Sure, they were one of the weaker teams to make the Finals, but so were the '01 Sixers, '09 Magic and the '02/'03 Nets. But that doesn't mean they were "shitty." In fact, the Cavs were an excellent defensive and rebounding team which was a huge reason they got past the Pistons.

[Ne 1]

Each argument is dumb (and short sided). Kobe's 5 rings matter, just like LeBron's MVPs do.

When you add everything together, they've both been pretty succesful. I have them @ #9 and #10 all-time, respectfully.

Nah man, Kobe was just another Rick Fox/Derek Fisher for his first 3 rings. They don't count, it was all Shaq. He would have never won without Shaq....oh wait that's right he proved that he could.

[TheCorporation]

Let's see...

Winning regular season MVP's that are voting on

OR

Winning titles



Winning titles please

5/2 > 2/3

Kinda missed the point here bud...Thanks for contributing lol

[Ne 1]

Kinda missed the point here bud...Thanks for contributing lol

He's right. The main goal for teams/players is to win rings, not rack up awards awarded by the media. Ask Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Steve Nash, Kevin Durant, Allen Iverson and Derrick Rose... if they could, they'd trade in their MVP trophies for a championship ring in a heart beat.

[TheCorporation]

He's right. The main goal for teams/players is to win rings, not rack up awards awarded by the media. Ask Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Steve Nash, Kevin Durant, Allen Iverson and Derrick Rose... if they could, they'd trade in their MVP trophies for a championship ring in a heart beat.

I'll spell it out for the few that don't understand...

Championships are a team effort, and team achievement. Do you not think you could pair up Shaq with Malone, Barkley, KD, Rose, LBJ etc and they would not win at least 3 chips in 8 years? Sure Kobe earned some rings, but so did the entire team. MVPs on the other hand are more of an individual award. So if we're talking about an individual award, then MVPs are the way to go. If we are talking about a team achievement, then Championships are. And since this thread isn't about Lakers vs Heat, well...

[dubeta]

He's right. The main goal for teams/players is to win rings, not rack up awards awarded by the media. Ask Karl Malone, Charles Barkley, Steve Nash, Kevin Durant, Allen Iverson and Derrick Rose... if they could, they'd trade in their MVP trophies for a championship ring in a heart beat.

Ok ask Robert Horry, Scalabrine, Norris Cole, Adam Morrison and the thousands of other role players bench warmers who have rings, they would trade their rings in a heartbeat to be an MVP superstar in the league

Only thing that matters in winning the ring as the man, nothing else