which critera for ranking players all time makes more sense. Kobe fans or Lebron fan

[JohnFreeman]

only problem is... something voted by espn at the end of a regular season isnt on the exact same level as a guy who co leads his team to the championship averaging 30/7/6


dominant statistical rings will always be worth more than an mvp


ask steve nash if he'd trade one of those mvps for kobes 2001 or 2002 rings

Give up an award for being the best player, or a side kick ring...hmmm

[Warfan]

Rings+ MVPS + FMVPS


1.Jordan (17)
2.Russell (16)
3.Kareem (14)
4.Magic (11)
5.Duncan (9)
6.Bird (8)
7.Shaq (8)
8.Kobe (8)
9.LeBron (8)
10.Wilt (7)

Aint that bad

I cant be bothered to check it, but pretty sure they are the rignt numbers.

[zoom17]

Rings+ MVPS + FMVPS


1.Jordan (17)
2.Russell (16)
3.Kareem (14)
4.Magic (11)
5.Duncan (9)
6.Bird (8)
7.Shaq (8)
8.Kobe (8)
9.LeBron (8)
10.Wilt (7)

Aint that bad

I cant be bothered to check it, but pretty sure they are the rignt numbers.

So Lebron Jumps to 5 after this finals

[kennethgriffin]

Literally have never seen a LeBron fan who uses that criteria.

they use it every damn day


they saif lebron passed kobe a long time ago... nearly every day if not more than once


"lebron 4 mvps and 2 rings/2fmvps is greater than kobes 5 rings, 1mvp and 2 fmvps


they list mvps as the end all be all and rings as the tie breaker

theyve been saying lebrons the best small forward all time since he won his 4th mvp

all lebron fans ever do is use mvp's first in their discussions. theyre all about it

then list fmvps or rings are tie breakers in discussions


how are you that blind?

[kennethgriffin]

Rings+ MVPS + FMVPS


1.Jordan (17)
2.Russell (16)
3.Kareem (14)
4.Magic (11)
5.Duncan (9)
6.Bird (8)
7.Shaq (8)
8.Kobe (8)
9.LeBron (8)
10.Wilt (7)

Aint that bad

I cant be bothered to check it, but pretty sure they are the rignt numbers.

theres a huge disadvantage for guys like russell, kobe and shaq


russell wasnt allowed to win fmvps and kobe/shaq werent allowed to win season mvps. the media hated them and blacklisted them


if players voted for mvp like they did with kareem. kobe and shaq would have 5 mvps each



fact is... you can set out to win a championship and accomplish that. you can win it

but you cant set out to win an mvp award. there is no way to win it. there is no criteria. its just a nomination

[GimmeThat]

Rings + MVPs + Finals MVPs

Duncan: 9
Shaq: 8
Kobe: 8
LeBron: 8

That's a pretty fair one.

And while any weighted adjustment applied to any category would be subject to an agenda of ranking players.

I believe it may be easier to first rank players based off of these numbers, than twitch them by historical standards.

And if we are talking about individual players, Defensive Player of the Year should matter as well

basketball reference already have a Hall of Famer probabilty calculation.

I wonder if we could base off of that and find a different measure to rank players.

The equation would probably blow up, because we would also be factoring in total points scored, total playoff points etc.


But hey, statistics are just damn lies.

[kennethgriffin]

Give up an award for being the best player, or a side kick ring...hmmm

now you went full r*tard

1993 mvp - barkley, 1993 best player = jordan
1995 mvp - robinson, 1994 best player = hakeem
1997 mvp - malone, 1997 best player = jordan
1999 mvp - malone, 1999 best player = shaq
2001 mvp - iverson, 2001 best player = shaq
2002 mvp - duncan, 2002 best player = shaq
2004 mvp - garnett, 2004 best player = duncan
2005 mvp - nash, 2005 best player = duncan
2006 mvp - nash, 2006 best player = kobe
2007 mvp - dirk, 2007 best player = kobe
2009 mvp - lebron, 2009 best player = kobe
2011 mvp - rose, 2011 best player = lebron
2014 mvp - durant, 2014 best player = lebron


learn a bit of history ya bum

[GimmeThat]

Rings+ MVPS + FMVPS


1.Jordan (17)
2.Russell (16)
3.Kareem (14)
4.Magic (11)
5.Duncan (9)
6.Bird (8)
7.Shaq (8)
8.Kobe (8)
9.LeBron (8)
10.Wilt (7)

Aint that bad

I cant be bothered to check it, but pretty sure they are the rignt numbers.

I would like to think that it is safe to conclude that as the Finals MVP is named after the Great Bill Russell. He has earned a Finals MVP in every single season in which he had won the Finals.

I can't be bothered to check it, but pretty sure that's logic.


And to say Kareem isn't in the discussion with MJ.

[T_L_P]

theres a huge disadvantage for guys like russell, kobe and shaq


russell wasnt allowed to win fmvps and kobe/shaq werent allowed to win season mvps. the media hated them and blacklisted them


if players voted for mvp like they did with kareem. kobe and shaq would have 5 mvps each



fact is... you can set out to win a championship and accomplish that. you can win it

but you cant set out to win an mvp award. there is no way to win it. there is no criteria. its just a nomination

So many lies in a single post.

What years is Kobe winning his 5 in? I'll wait.

[kennethgriffin]

So many lies in a single post.

What years is Kobe winning his 5 in? I'll wait.

if kobes name was michael jordan...he wins mvp in atleast 4 or 5 of these years

2003
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010

ive seen jordan win his first mvp without even having a top record. it was just his name, stats, hype and the fact that he made the playoffs

the media will make anyone mvp if they feel the need to

they broke their criteria for nash's 2nd mvp, they broke their criteria for lebron in 2012

neither guy had a top 3 record or were a confrence #1 seed


but kobe always lost to that made up criteria of "best player on the team with the best record" excuse

[Warfan]

theres a huge disadvantage for guys like russell, kobe and shaq


russell wasnt allowed to win fmvps and kobe/shaq werent allowed to win season mvps. the media hated them and blacklisted them


if players voted for mvp like they did with kareem. kobe and shaq would have 5 mvps each



fact is... you can set out to win a championship and accomplish that. you can win it

but you cant set out to win an mvp award. there is no way to win it. there is no criteria. its just a nomination

Yes, but there is no chance the russell wins even close to 11 rings in another era so it i think it's fair. Shaq wasn't allowed to get MVPs (well besides 1), since he played with kobe, instead he gets 3 titles and 3 fmpvs (6 points). If kobe didn't have shaq he wasn't winning a 3 championships during that stage of his career, so instead of getting an extra mvp or 2 he gets 3 rings and therefore 3 points.


Kareem won most of his MVPs in the 70s when he didn't have great help for the majority of those years and it was very difficult to win a championships. Whereas kobe played with a better player than him for the first 7 years, so he couldn't get MVPs, instead he got rings. And shaq was getting outvoted by mj, hakeem, Drob, and then had a top 5 player with him in the early 2000's (which allowed him to get the rings and FMVPs). And he was still awarded an MVP during that time too.

It balances out.

[kennethgriffin]

Yes, but there is no chance the russell wins even close to 11 rings in another era so it i think it's fair. Shaq wasn't allowed to get MVPs (well besides 1), since he played with kobe, instead he gets 3 titles and 3 fmpvs (6 points). If kobe didn't have shaq he wasn't winning a 3 championships during that stage of his career, so instead of getting an extra mvp or 2 he gets 3 rings and therefore 3 points.


Kareem won most of his MVPs in the 70s when he didn't have great help for the majority of those years and it was very difficult to win a championships. Whereas kobe played with a better player than him for the first 7 years, so he couldn't get MVPs, instead he got rings. And shaq was getting outvoted by mj, hakeem, Drob, and then had a top 5 player with him in the early 2000's (which allowed him to get the rings and FMVPs). And he was still awarded an MVP during that time too.

It balances out.

except lebron can win 2 mvps playing with multiple legends

kobe and shaq arent allowed cause they play with 1 other legend


just as i said. the media blacklisted kobe and shaq. they gave out fake criteria to keep it out of their hands whether kobe was with shaq or not.. both guys suffered

even shaq in 2005 suffered

they just dont like those 2 guys


jordan won mvp playing with pippen and rodman

bird and magic won 3 mvps each and had the equivalent of 2 shaqs or 2 kobes on their roster with all the legends


it doesnt balance out

[T_L_P]

if kobes name was michael jordan...he wins mvp in atleast 4 or 5 of these years

2003
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010

ive seen jordan win his first mvp without even having a top record. it was just his name, stats, hype and the fact that he made the playoffs

the media will make anyone mvp if they feel the need to

they broke their criteria for nash's 2nd mvp, they broke their criteria for lebron in 2012

neither guy had a top 3 record or were a confrence #1 seed


but kobe always lost to that made up criteria of "best player on the team with the best record" excuse

Yet again, so much fail in a single post.

Kobe was not the most valuable player in 2003. He wasn't even more valuable than Shaq.

Duncan was head and shoulders above him as a player at that point: it's well documented.

Sure, Kobe was at the height of his game aesthetically. But as if I or anyone interested in the game should give a shit about that. In what way was Kobe more valuable to the Lakers in 2003 than Duncan was the Spurs the same year?

[kennethgriffin]

Yet again, so much fail in a single post.

Kobe was not the most valuable player in 2003. He wasn't even more valuable than Shaq.

Duncan was head and shoulders above him as a player at that point: it's well documented.

Sure, Kobe was at the height of his game aesthetically. But as if I or anyone interested in the game should give a shit about that. In what way was Kobe more valuable to the Lakers in 2003 than Duncan was the Spurs the same year?

now completely change your reasoning behind kobe not being mvp in 2003 and make up a new reason for 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009,2010

cause it was clear any reason you gave shaq or duncan for 2003 is a reason to make kobe league mvp during that run.. skill/dominance/ heads and shoulders kobe was on another planet than anyone else in the league..


like i said. its about whoever the media wants to vote. they make up the criteria every year. they change it to fit their agenda. same as any of us

its a story they gotta sell. its propaganda and theyre gonna push what they wanna write about

nobody wanted to write about kobe.. hated players dont get mvps. its a fact. controversial guys might luck out one award

[Warfan]

except lebron can win 2 mvps playing with multiple legends

kobe and shaq arent allowed cause they play with 1 other legend


just as i said. the media blacklisted kobe and shaq. they gave out fake criteria to keep it out of their hands whether kobe was with shaq or not.. both guys suffered

even shaq in 2005 suffered

they just dont like those 2 guys


jordan won mvp playing with pippen and rodman

bird and magic won 3 mvps each and had the equivalent of 2 shaqs or 2 kobes on their roster with all the legends


it doesnt balance out

Multiple legends, what? I wouldn't consider dwade a legend, top 20 player at best, and he's one of my favourite players. Bosh, a legend? Just stop...And don't mention a 40 year old ray allen either...


Thing is, Lebron didn't win MVP in 2011 because of the reasons you said, had another top 5 player and had a lot of hate from the media.

Comparing pippen, an old rodman and mchale to shaq

Magic won his MVPs in the late 80's when Kareem was 40, big difference to winning MVPs with DOMINANT, PEAK SHAQUILLE O'NEAL on your team.

Do you understand?