The 90s didn't have dominant wing players besides Jordan

[RoundMoundOfReb]

What that decade lacked in dominant wing players, it compensated for with dominant big men. I don't care if Clyde Drexler wasn't in his prime...Hakeem, Shaq, Robinson, Ewing, Zo, etc. all in one decade is just absurd.

this

[Rose'sACL]

Dominant no touching/3 second violation era wings who played in the 90s:

Kobe Bryant (Drafted 1996): 16/4/3 (45% FG) in the 90s
Ray Allen (Drafted 1996): 18/4/4 (44% FG) in the 90s
Allen Iverson (Drafted 1996): 25/4/6 (43% FG) in the 90s
Tracy McGrady (Drafted 1997): 11/6/3 (45% FG) in the 90s

^With the exception of Iverson, who wasn't that great anyway, those guys benefitted GREATLY by playing in a much softer era for perimeter players after being subject to the sort of defense Jordan played under the vast majority of his career.

Now compare their production in the Jordan era to the 2000s era (especially around the middle of the decade).

That poido123 guy once wrote that you have a lot of basketball knowledge. i have no idea how you could write that garbage with so much knowledge.Why are you including first couple of years for their stats to compare them to players in the 90s ? Mcgrady didn't even start all his game till 2000.
Ray allen(1999-00): 22.1-4.4-3.8 on 57%TS(drafted in 1996)
Tracy McGrady(2001):27-7.5-4.6 on 52% TS(first season he started all the games)
Allen iverson(3rd season: 98-99)-26.8-4.9-4.6 on 51%TS
Kobe Bryant(2000-01:first time he got 40+mins avg playing time): 28.5-5.9-5 on 54.4% TS
Don't let me catch you again.

[atljonesbro]

Why do we give Jordan a pass on this? Such a massive lack of talent. He never really had to face anyone good.

[j3lademaster]

I'd rather play against dominant wing players than dominant bigs in a more physical era with no 3 second paint rule on D.

[Rose'sACL]

1) Pippen was never really dominant, he spent most of his time in the 90s as a 2nd option and then a 3rd option. By the time he got to Portland, he was like the 4th or 5th option. And he was 35-38...

2) Name me another 38-40 year old perimeter player who put up that type of production (including multiple 40 and 50 point games) that MJ did.

He didn't even get a chance to play post summer of '05 rule changes, probably would've put up his 2nd 3-peat numbers under those circumstances.

As weak of an 'argument' as I've seen. I show you young-prime players, you give me grandfathers. Nice try though

you skewed the stats for those players by including first couple of seasons when they entered the league and compared them to stats average for whole careers of 90s players. He did to you what you were trying to do by using first couple of seasons for those players when they were new to the league and some didn't even get much mins. also, thread was about dominant wing players and not player who averaged same stats as MJ.
You didn't post prime stats for any player in your post.

[jstern]

Career years for perimeter players after the rule changes. Imagine if the rule changes happened say in 1990.

[GimmeThat]

I'd rather play against dominant wing players than dominant bigs in a more physical era with no 3 second paint rule on D.

why? It doesn't really matter. because the Pistons had the "Jordan rule" whatever that meant since I was too young to watch basketball

then there's the Spurs defense against Lebron James. whatever that means, because I'm a few weeks away to make "The Decision" on whether or not Lebron is a legitimate all time greats.

Jordan Dominated the 1-3 positions during his era, and I'd make the argument that not until the arrival of Pippen did he help kept the 4 position in check and somewhat cancel out the effect of dominant big mens.

If I told you Lebron would make Melo look like Drexler.

Would you say I have low standards for superstar?



Yes, Kobe beat out an a young Magic team, tied with his 96 draft class in a 2010-2011 rematch both late as hell in their career.

Only when you look at the differences in roster. Even Ray Allen would have to give Kobe praises. Maybe that's something KG and Ray Allen could agree on.



NOT HAPPENING

[tpols]

The second most dominant wing player from the 90s decade was MJ's teammate.. go figure

[DonDadda59]

you skewed the stats for those players by including first couple of seasons when they entered the league and compared them to stats average for whole careers of 90s players. He did to you what you were trying to do by using first couple of seasons for those players when they were new to the league and some didn't even get much mins. also, thread was about dominant wing players and not player who averaged same stats as MJ.
You didn't post prime stats for any player in your post.

Get off my nuts you clown. Just look at Bron's stats in the era of inflated perimeter stats compared to Kobe's. Both guys came out of high school, so you can cry all you want about 'skewed' numbers, but the facts look like this:

Kobe in his third year playing in the 90s: 19.9 PPG (46.5% FG)/5 RPG/4 APG

Lebron in his third year playing in the 00s: 31.4 PPG (48% FG)/7 RPG/7APG

^That was the season that several perimeter guys, including guys who were drafted in the mid 90s, suspiciously had career years where their scoring sky rocketed. Wonder what happened

'04-'05 Scoring Leaders
1) Allen Iverson 30.7
2) Kobe Bryant 27.6
3) LeBron James 27.2
4) Dirk Nowitzki 26.1
5) Amar'e Stoudemire 26

'05-'06 Scoring Leaders
1) Kobe Bryant 35.4
2) Allen Iverson 33
3) LeBron James 31.4
4) Gilbert Arenas 29.5
5) Dwyane Wade 27.2

Must've been something in the drinking water in the Summer of '05

Now compare that to 10+ years earlier

'94-'95 Scoring Leaders
1) Shaquille O'Neal 29.3
2) Hakeem Olajuwon 27.8
3) David Robinson 27.6
4) Karl Malone 26.7
5) Jamal Mashburn 24.1

'95-'96 Scoring Leaders
1) Michael Jordan 30.6
2) Hakeem Olajuwon 26.9
3) SHaquille O'Neal 26.6
4) Karl Malone 25.7
5) David Robinson 25

Notice how the smallest player in the top 5 from the 90s not named Jordan was the 6'8 250 lbs Mashburn. Meanwhile the 5'11" 165 lbs Iverson was putting up 33 PPG I shudder to think about the sort of destruction Jordan would've wrecked getting that sort of leg up from the league. Would've been disgusting to witness.

Go to sleep.

[tpols]

^Lebron James is the exception, not the rule.. He was 240 all muscle built right out of H.S. and could bang with NBA sized players from the start.. Most players straight out of high school have to develop physically their first few years in the league before they can take off

case in point.. KG, tmac and kobe all took a few years to develop.


What is this notion that 1997 kobe bryant or mac were as good as they were 5 years later?? Its night and day ability wise.. they blossomed into way better players than they came into the league as.

[DonDadda59]

^Lebron James is the exception, not the rule.. He was 240 all muscle built right out of H.S. and could bang with NBA sized players from the start.. Most players straight out of high school have to develop physically their first few years in the league before they can take off

case in point.. KG, tmac and kobe all took a few years to develop.


What is this notion that 1997 kobe bryant or mac were as good as they were 5 years later?? Its night and day ability wise.. they blossomed into way better players than they came into the league as.

LeBron had his career best scoring year following the summer of '05 rule changes. So did Kobe (drafted 96), Iverson (drafted 96), Arenas, Allen (drafted 96), and a few others (we all know how the finals went). Bron also blossomed into a way better player, he didn't even have a jumper back then but he was putting up 31.4 PPG in his third year out of high school. Meanwhile Bean, who at the same exact time would also have a career scoring year 10 years after he was drafted, couldn't deal with the physicality of the 90s.

The 00s on were/are clearly more ideal for perimeter players than the 90s were. Guys can go on about 'advanced defense' or whatever other bullshit they can pull out of their ass, but the facts show this, clearly.

Jordan dominated an era that was geared towards dominant big men, not making it easy for wing players to score, and he played against the greatest collection of dominant bigs arguably of any era. Just look at who was winning the championship, MVP, scoring title, etc when he stepped away momentarily in the middle of the decade. It wasn't 5'11 shooting guards putting up 33 PPG

Anyway, this shit is played out. Dadda out.

[BlazerRed]

Get off my nuts you clown. Just look at Bron's stats in the era of inflated perimeter stats compared to Kobe's. Both guys came out of high school, so you can cry all you want about 'skewed' numbers, but the facts look like this:

Kobe in his third year playing in the 90s: 19.9 PPG (46.5% FG)/5 RPG/4 APG

Lebron in his third year playing in the 00s: 31.4 PPG (48% FG)/7 RPG/7APG

^That was the season that several perimeter guys, including guys who were drafted in the mid 90s, suspiciously had career years where their scoring sky rocketed. Wonder what happened

'04-'05 Scoring Leaders
1) Allen Iverson 30.7
2) Kobe Bryant 27.6
3) LeBron James 27.2
4) Dirk Nowitzki 26.1
5) Amar'e Stoudemire 26

'05-'06 Scoring Leaders
1) Kobe Bryant 35.4
2) Allen Iverson 33
3) LeBron James 31.4
4) Gilbert Arenas 29.5
5) Dwyane Wade 27.2

Must've been something in the drinking water in the Summer of '05

Now compare that to 10+ years earlier

'94-'95 Scoring Leaders
1) Shaquille O'Neal 29.3
2) Hakeem Olajuwon 27.8
3) David Robinson 27.6
4) Karl Malone 26.7
5) Jamal Mashburn 24.1

'95-'96 Scoring Leaders
1) Michael Jordan 30.6
2) Hakeem Olajuwon 26.9
3) SHaquille O'Neal 26.6
4) Karl Malone 25.7
5) David Robinson 25

Notice how the smallest player in the top 5 from the 90s not named Jordan was the 6'8 250 lbs Mashburn. Meanwhile the 5'11" 165 lbs Iverson was putting up 33 PPG I shudder to think about the sort of destruction Jordan would've wrecked getting that sort of leg up from the league. Would've been disgusting to witness.

Go to sleep.

[Rose'sACL]

^Lebron James is the exception, not the rule.. He was 240 all muscle built right out of H.S. and could bang with NBA sized players from the start.. Most players straight out of high school have to develop physically their first few years in the league before they can take off

case in point.. KG, tmac and kobe all took a few years to develop.


What is this notion that 1997 kobe bryant or mac were as good as they were 5 years later?? Its night and day ability wise.. they blossomed into way better players than they came into the league as.

he used first 2 seasons of AI, McGrady, allen to make his point and when i call him out on it he goes on another route altogether. He thinks that lebron would struggle in the 80s or 90s when he would benefit more from the freedom on offensive end without worrying about offensive fouls as much as he does now given how big he is for a win player.
Kobe would have been the second best wing player along with pippen in the 90s.
Second best wing player in the 90s was playing on Jordan's team.
Kobe has the moves to play in any era and lebron has the body to play in any era. pre-2012 Wade would also have been a superstar in the 90s or any other decade.

[deja vu]

OP was a toddler in the 90s, so let's be kind to him.

[aj1987]

^Lebron James is the exception, not the rule.. He was 240 all muscle built right out of H.S. and could bang with NBA sized players from the start.. Most players straight out of high school have to develop physically their first few years in the league before they can take off

case in point.. KG, tmac and kobe all took a few years to develop.


What is this notion that 1997 kobe bryant or mac were as good as they were 5 years later?? Its night and day ability wise.. they blossomed into way better players than they came into the league as.

No point in arguing with that dude. Apparently, you needed a broken bone or torn ligament to get a FT in the '90's. Also, if a current player ever dared to drive into the lane, they would apparently end up in the ER.

'90's = GOAT era, where scoring was literally impossible unless you were a god. All of today's players would be role-players, at best, in the '90's.