Boiled down

[Deuce Bigalow]

if that was purely the criteria, shouldnt player evaluation be based on all of them. evaluating players by rings is just odd since that wasnt the based criteria.

I'm just boiling it down real quick.

[NumberSix]

Russell should be included considering the FMVP is named after him.

He doesn't have any, so no, he shouldn't.

[Deuce Bigalow]

He doesn't have any, so no, he shouldn't.

Is Russell a known liar?

[Random_Guy]

I'm just boiling it down real quick.

oh okay~the top 10 is just an opinion anyways

[3LiftHeatCurse]

Russell: 11
Jordan: 6
Kareem: 6
Mikan: 5
Magic: 5
Kobe: 5
Shaq: 4
Duncan: 4
Bird: 3
Lebron: 2
Hakeem: 2
Wilt: 2

All these players have won/would have won an MVP and FMVP if the award existed and made multiple All-NBA first teams for you guys who want to bring in "Horry: 7".

I wanted to make this thread to end the Wilt debates. Let us proceed.

You forgot Wade, who has 3.

[DMAVS41]

Nope.

Must have an MVP, FMVP, and multiple All-NBA first teams. Mikan and Russell would obviously have at least one of each.

What do you mean...nope?

It's just an arbitrary distinction you have made. And you aren't even including all the players that have that in your list.

A 1 time mvp winner has not distanced himself enough from a guy like Hondo...who won 8 titles, has a fmvp, one of the 20 greatest players ever...etc.

I know this is all about Kobe for you, but do you really think 1 MVP is more important than 3 titles? Or that an all time great player like Hondo with 8 titles doesn't deserve mention here?

Come on now...especially in relation to all the ring count stuff as this is in response to the stupid "horry" argument...

[DMAVS41]

You forgot Wade, who has 3.

He doesn't have a MVP...so he doesn't count.

LOL...that is why this is so stupid. Wade obviously played at an MVP level though.

That is what is so stupid about Kobe fans...if someone were to make the same list using multiple mvp winners (which actually makes a lot more sense)...they'd bitch and moan

Because the truth is that the GOAT list is better off with multiple mvp winners, multiple title winners, and multiple finals mvp winners.

[LAZERUSS]

The REAL "boiled down"...

Russell won 11 rings, and probably would have won at least eight FMVPs.

HOWEVER, it was Chamberlain who was almost universally accepted as the best player in the league while the two were playing. It was WILT with a 7-2 margin in First-Team All NBAs in their ten seasons in the league together. It was WILT winning an MVP in his rookie season over Russell. And it was WILT winning runaway MVPs over Russell (and other's) in the mid-to-late 60's.

Oh, and check out their 143 H2H games (courtesy of Fpliii)...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...5TkFDY3c#gid=0


Chamberlain with a MASSIVE scoring margin, a crushing rebounding margin, and an overwhelming FG% edge. And in the known games with blocks...again, a HUGE margin for Chamberlain.

Furthermore, Wilt, with worse rosters, and rosters who generally played considerably worse in the post-season, played on team's that lost four games seven's by margins of 2, 1, 4, and 2 points...in series in which Wilt either outplayed, or downright dominated Russell.

And for those that somehow believe that Russell was the better player...please explain this to me...

In the 65-66 EDF's, Wilt's team was down 3-1 going into the fifth game of that series. And with his teammates badly outplayed (and who would go on to collectively shoot an abysmal .352 in that series), Wilt came out in that fifth game and flat out crushed Russell with a 46 point, 34 rebound game. However, with his teammates contributing virtually nothing, Wilt's Sixers lost that game and the series.

Ok, so let's move forward to the very next year. Now, it was Wilt's team with a 3-1 margin (and only a narrow four point loss in Boston in game four prevented an embarassing sweep for the eight-time defending champs) going into game five. Did Russell rise up and put up a HUGE game against Wilt, when it was obvious his teammates needed him to do so? Nope...he went quietly like a lamb being led to slaughter. He scored FOUR points, on 2-5 shooting, to go along with 21 rebounds and seven assists. Meanwhile, Chamberlain "the choker" overwhelmed him with a 29 point (22 of which had come in the first half when the game was still close), 10-16 shooting, 13 assist, 36 rebound, and seven block game. The Sixers, who had trailed late in the first quarter by as much as 17 points, completely carpet-bombed Russell's Celtics from that point on, leading by as much as 27 points mid-way thru the fourth quarter, en route to a 140-116 pasting of Russell and his Celtics.

What happened? Why couldn't Russell hang a 40-30 game on Chamberlain when he knew that his teammates were finally neutralized by Wilt's?

John Wooden said it best... had Wilt had Russell's rosters, and Auerbach as a coach, and likely it would have been Chamberlain holding all of those rings.

[DonDadda59]

Bob Cousy- 6

[Rocketswin2013]

Russell is a bad offensive basketball player and just a good defender. Not even in the top 50. Wilt was just an ahead of his time athlete with a couple hook shots. Like he was practically Deandre Jordan with 3 or 4 legit go to moves. Dwight Howard would have probably put up even better stats than Wilt had he been born in the 50's among guys who he physically dominates with ease. **** both of them honestly.

[fpliii]

Russell is a bad offensive basketball player and just a good defender. Not even in the top 50. Wilt was just an ahead of his time athlete with a couple hook shots. Like he was practically Deandre Jordan with 3 or 4 legit go to moves. Dwight Howard would have probably put up even better stats than Wilt had he been born in the 50's among guys who he physically dominates with ease. **** both of them honestly.

Where's your chaperone my homie?

[Akrazotile]

Considering Kobe won a "Derrick Rose good-story-bro" MVP im not sure why he would qualify for this if youre trying to make it legitimate.

[Keno]

safe to say this shitty thread backfired faster than expected.

[Deuce Bigalow]

The REAL "boiled down"...

Russell won 11 rings, and probably would have won at least eight FMVPs.

HOWEVER, it was Chamberlain who was almost universally accepted as the best player in the league while the two were playing. It was WILT with a 7-2 margin in First-Team All NBAs in their ten seasons in the league together. It was WILT winning an MVP in his rookie season over Russell. And it was WILT winning runaway MVPs over Russell (and other's) in the mid-to-late 60's.

Oh, and check out their 143 H2H games (courtesy of Fpliii)...

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...5TkFDY3c#gid=0


Chamberlain with a MASSIVE scoring margin, a crushing rebounding margin, and an overwhelming FG% edge. And in the known games with blocks...again, a HUGE margin for Chamberlain.

Furthermore, Wilt, with worse rosters, and rosters who generally played considerably worse in the post-season, played on team's that lost four games seven's by margins of 2, 1, 4, and 2 points...in series in which Wilt either outplayed, or downright dominated Russell.

And for those that somehow believe that Russell was the better player...please explain this to me...

In the 65-66 EDF's, Wilt's team was down 3-1 going into the fifth game of that series. And with his teammates badly outplayed (and who would go on to collectively shoot an abysmal .352 in that series), Wilt came out in that fifth game and flat out crushed Russell with a 46 point, 34 rebound game. However, with his teammates contributing virtually nothing, Wilt's Sixers lost that game and the series.

Ok, so let's move forward to the very next year. Now, it was Wilt's team with a 3-1 margin (and only a narrow four point loss in Boston in game four prevented an embarassing sweep for the eight-time defending champs) going into game five. Did Russell rise up and put up a HUGE game against Wilt, when it was obvious his teammates needed him to do so? Nope...he went quietly like a lamb being led to slaughter. He scored FOUR points, on 2-5 shooting, to go along with 21 rebounds and seven assists. Meanwhile, Chamberlain "the choker" overwhelmed him with a 29 point (22 of which had come in the first half when the game was still close), 10-16 shooting, 13 assist, 36 rebound, and seven block game. The Sixers, who had trailed late in the first quarter by as much as 17 points, completely carpet-bombed Russell's Celtics from that point on, leading by as much as 27 points mid-way thru the fourth quarter, en route to a 140-116 pasting of Russell and his Celtics.

What happened? Why couldn't Russell hang a 40-30 game on Chamberlain when he knew that his teammates were finally neutralized by Wilt's?

John Wooden said it best... had Wilt had Russell's rosters, and Auerbach as a coach, and likely it would have been Chamberlain holding all of those rings.

Boiled down:

Russell: 11
Wilt: 2

[Deuce Bigalow]

Bob Cousy- 6

Russell would have all the FMVPs for those 6 rings.