Vintage NBA: George Mikan

[jongib369]

Wow, not only do you not know the proper useage of deduce; you don't even know that deduct and deduce are different things.

You didn't back up anything. You just used conjecture to claim something.

1. I said the game evolved you moron. You're acting like someone is incapable of learning a different set of rules. How do kids learn the rules now? Oh, people tell them.

2. Athleticism and strength don't mean shit. Pau Gasol isn't a hyper athlete who's dunking on people and Durant isn't benching 300.

3. There were no granny set shots in the video. There were granny free throws, and they went in. Shaq practiced that way and was allegedly good at them but said they were stupid and he wouldn't use them. The league is lousy with bad footwork now. Jeff Green has horrible defensive footwork. LeBron and Dwight can't move in the post. A lot of players now have no left hand. Rondo takes off for layups on the wrong foot. You don't know the time management because you saw a heavily edited video. There was catch and shoot in the video. There was help defense in the video. The man defense was fine, because the game wasn't predicated on outside shots. Yeah, they clearly had zero strategy when they specifically game plan for an old, nearly retired Mikan, and literally run set plays most of the time.

YOU CAN'T SAY THAT PITTMAN WOULD TRASH PEOPLE BY PLAYING MODERN BALL IN THAT ERA. THE RULES WERE DIFFERENT. OBVIOUSLY YOU'D HAVE AN ADVANTAGE IF YOU PUT ONE GUY WITH MODERN RULES INTO THE PAST AND CALLED IT FROM A MODERN PERSPECTIVE. THAT'S THE SAME LOGICAL FALLACY OF, 'THESE OLD GUYS CAN'T PLAY BECAUSE OF HOW THEY DRIBBLE'. IF THEY LEARNED THE GAME THE SAME WAY, THEY'D PLAY THE SAME WAY.

Mikan was in his last season in the video you dumb f*ck. He made a few nice passes, timed rebound tips, and was second on his team in scoring, and they won. THEY CHANGED RULES BECAUSE OF HIM. He shit on his competition and it's patently stupid to assume he'd be a poor player with proper shoes, medicine and training.

That game had players with comparable skills, playing fast, without zones, without iso-ball, without threes, without ticky tack fouls, without whining to the refs, and guys played with significant injuries. There was a behind the back pass, there were 25 foot shots, there was ball movement. People claim the floater is the hardest shot in basketball, and these guys took 18 foot one handers that were essentially floaters. They used the f*cking backboard.

This is good basketball with slightly different rules and skills. You're showing a grandiose amount of stupidity. Stop talking nonsense and learn about the game you piece of shit.

http://youtu.be/hp0O1PpA3UU


O_O

[swagga]

Thanks for your opinion, what do you think of these games? First is shorter, but the second is an all around better game...Reed and Kareem go at it

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EEgynFUSJjg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_uAJlWP0lQ

a completely different type of game from what I see... unfortunately I don;t have much time to view them right now. From what I see that type of game is much more appliable today.
Reed and Kareem would no doubt be great players today.
Kareem is GOAT imo.

nice vids btw.

[fpliii]

Mikan did a lot of great things (and if you include BAA+NBL, that's 6 titles, two threepeats). In general though I'm very hesitant about pre-shot clock guys (especially considering Mikan wasn't considered the most mobile of big men; pretty fluid for the position back in the day though), so I don't want to speculate as to his place in today's game.

Either way, great videos and links in this thread.

[swagga]

Wow, not only do you not know the proper useage of deduce; you don't even know that deduct and deduce are different things.

You didn't back up anything. You just used conjecture to claim something.

i use the available information. I don't make shit up like players might learn something and judge by that. I judge by what is proven. You brought players into the discussion and I told you what they bring to the table that 50s guys did not.

1. I said the game evolved you moron. You're acting like someone is incapable of learning a different set of rules. How do kids learn the rules now? Oh, people tell them.

The game has evolved beyond rules. The game favors a distinct type of players, some like wilt and russell have the gifts to play in all eras, others like mikan would simply not adapt due to all the things I already pointed out.

2. Athleticism and strength don't mean shit. Pau Gasol isn't a hyper athlete who's dunking on people and Durant isn't benching 300.

they do when you lack skills. Pau Gasol is a ****ing elite post player at 7'1' with retardo length that can put the ball on the floor and that has a high post game. We're talking about a primary option for a team that almost beat team usa twice, one of the most skilled players to ever play.
Kevin Durant has a ridiculous first step at 6'10'... isn't that athleticism idiot?

[QUOTE=ProfessorMurder]
3. There were no granny set shots in the video. There were granny free throws, and they went in. Shaq practiced that way and was allegedly good at them but said they were stupid and he wouldn't use them.
[QUOTE]

alot of the guys are at most comfort when they shoot from the shoulder/ from lower head level. Against current defenses that is simply not gonna cut it.

The league is lousy with bad footwork now. Jeff Green has horrible defensive footwork. LeBron and Dwight can't move in the post. A lot of players now have no left hand. Rondo takes off for layups on the wrong foot.

the league is crazy athletic now and the rules have been changed in order to free the lane, therefore such players can get away with not having correct footwork. Sure it would be helpful to have footwork, but as it stands today it is unfortunately not mandated by the rule-favored style of play.
Lebron/Jeff Green/Dwight/Rondo are all athletic freaks with insane vert btw.

[QUOTE=ProfessorMurder]
You don't know the time management because you saw a heavily edited video. There was catch and shoot in the video.
[QUOTE]
there was very little catch and shoot and the spacing was shit.

[QUOTE=ProfessorMurder]
There was help defense in the video. The man defense was fine, because the game wasn't predicated on outside shots.
[QUOTE]
the man defense was atrocious with many absolutely comic lane penetrations imo.
how about fronting the post?
how about not helping one pass away from the shooters?
how about using a traping zone on those helpless guards?
because the game was inferior and it did not properly use spacing, because prolly those guys were bad shooters, because because because..

Yeah, they clearly had zero strategy when they specifically game plan for an old, nearly retired Mikan, and literally run set plays most of the time.

i'll give that they were running basic set plays, when I'm refering to plays I'm refering to stuff like elevator, hammer, horns, princeton schema, screening the screener, screening for low post position etc. Something that has multiple options, is flexible, etc. Not post up pass around the perimeter, establish position again, post up. That's rudimentary.
and the guy guarding mikan should learn to front the post imo
they ran zero plays for shooters, they did not maximize spacing like today
a floater from 15 feet will never be a high percentage shot or a shot that should ever be encouraged.

YOU CAN'T SAY THAT PITTMAN WOULD TRASH PEOPLE BY PLAYING MODERN BALL IN THAT ERA. THE RULES WERE DIFFERENT. OBVIOUSLY YOU'D HAVE AN ADVANTAGE IF YOU PUT ONE GUY WITH MODERN RULES INTO THE PAST AND CALLED IT FROM A MODERN PERSPECTIVE. THAT'S THE SAME LOGICAL FALLACY OF, 'THESE OLD GUYS CAN'T PLAY BECAUSE OF HOW THEY DRIBBLE'. IF THEY LEARNED THE GAME THE SAME WAY, THEY'D PLAY THE SAME WAY.

NEVER DID I SAY THAT HE GETS TO TRAIN. That implies that he can learn and apply all those moves in the first place. Because then we'd be judging nothing but IFs. I'm judgeing his game by what the tape shows, nothing more nothing less.
And btw given his constituion I don't see him as a strong low post scorer (Explained this 10 times already)

Mikan was in his last season in the video you dumb f*ck. He made a few nice passes, timed rebound tips, and was second on his team in scoring, and they won. THEY CHANGED RULES BECAUSE OF HIM. He shit on his competition and it's patently stupid to assume he'd be a poor player with proper shoes, medicine and training.

Again, I am judging based on what the player shows, not based on IF HE TRAINED with modern means. He was great back then, hats off. It don't mean his game would matter today. I don't assume shit. From the first post I said HIS GAME, not his ASSUMED/HYPOTHETICAL/POSSIBLE/POTENTIAL game. I said his game, what he showed in the video.
And the competition in the video is pathethic sincerely.

That game had players with comparable skills, playing fast, without zones, without iso-ball, without threes, without ticky tack fouls, without whining to the refs, and guys played with significant injuries. There was a behind the back pass, there were 25 foot shots, there was ball movement. People claim the floater is the hardest shot in basketball, and these guys took 18 foot one handers that were essentially floaters. They used the f*cking backboard.

playing fast?
the ball security in that video is sad
the ball handling is absolutely primitive
the 25ft shots were bailouts they had no tactics/spacing/plays because of lack of shooting skill and thus a lack of better spacing. Again 20ft floaters are not good shots as you hopefully know since you pretend to have played organized ball. Good basketball is based on easy shots no hard shots, so you basically imply they were taking bad shots....
and shitloads of players use the backboard today but you don't see it so much because the long 2p is one of the most inefficient shots today.

This is good basketball with slightly different rules and skills. You're showing a grandiose amount of stupidity. Stop talking nonsense and learn about the game you piece of shit.

slightly different rules??? 3pt line, zone rules, etc, those are game changers
no shooting/no spacing
no complex plays that can collapse a defense with multiple options
no athleticism
no rim defense
those guards would turn the ball over so much today I don't even want to go there
how the fukc is that good basketball? it's primitive basketball, it's nice solid and fundamental and it's great for primary school. It was GREAT back then but now it simply does not cut it. What's so hard to understand, I'm not against the guy I'm just saying his type of game would not be relevant today and his defficiencies would kill his role in this league.

and at the rest of the dickriders in this thread: great contribution does. Ether my ass

[BoutPractice]

The fun part about criticizing older players for taking difficult shots is that, when they are in fact taking easy shots they'll still criticize them because "anyone can do it" and it doesn't look impressive enough.

Old player makes a tough shot > But it's a bailout!
Old player makes a layup > But it's only a layup!

[LAZERUSS]

black and white photography actually enhances muscle definition because it accentuates shadow contrasts.

lol @ this dude actually arguing pre-integration players would have similar success in the modern league.

Hmmm...read the very first post.

He dominated the HARLEM GLOBETROTTERS for cryingoutloud.