USA Today's GOAT ranking system

[Pacer24]

That list is terrible. Where's Olajuwon and West, And Bird should be way higher

[Deuce Bigalow]

So by your criteria, if some one scores/rebounds/assists a lot in only one game and doesn't even play in the other games and their team loses (gets swept in the 1st round), they'd get x amount of points toward a GOAT system. That shows how flawed that criteria is - at least going by totals instead would mean that they got to the Finals or won.

Then that would mean that they gets points because they played a couple more games than everyone else allowing them to amass a bigger total, and the reason why they play more games is because their team is one of the best, just using your logic against you. You want yearly playoff totals on a GOAT ranking then go ahead and use it and post results.

[Deuce Bigalow]

That list is terrible. Where's Olajuwon and West, And Bird should be way higher

Hakeem and West are under 60 points using the article's ranking. Oscar's on there.

[rmt]

Then that would mean that they gets points because they played a couple more games than everyone else allowing them to amass a bigger total, and the reason why they play more games is because their team is one of the best, just using your logic against you. You want yearly playoff totals on a GOAT ranking then go ahead and use it and post results.

It's not my criteria - it's YOURS - you're the one stuck on using yearly playoff averages. I think that's double counting when they already get credit for career (a much better measure) playoff stats. Just pointing out the flaw in using a playoff ppg/rpg/apg for only one year for GOAT purposes.

[Deuce Bigalow]

It's not my criteria - it's YOURS - you're the one stuck on using yearly playoff averages. I think that's double counting when they already get credit for career (a much better measure) playoff stats. Just pointing out the flaw in using a playoff ppg/rpg/apg for only one year for GOAT purposes.

It's not a flaw. How is leading a category in the playoff bad? And it doesn't "double count" because being the career leader is for career average not an average for a year, and only one player has the career average title while dozens of different players have been a yearly leader. I want players like Baylor, West, and Pettit to get credit for leading the playoffs in scoring. Anybody can use whatever criteria they want, go ahead and use whatever you like

[TheCorporation]

Xmas as in Christmas? Never heard of that award.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Using this scale

Championship Ring = 5
Finals MVP = 4
League MVP = 5
All-NBA first team = 2
All-Defensive first team = 1
Season statistical title = 2
Playoff statistical title = 2
Career average leader = 6
Career playoff average leader = 6
Career total leader = 6
Career playoff total leader = 6

MJ-166
Wilt-138
Russell-123
Kareem-121
Magic-101
Cousy-97
Mikan-82
Kobe-79
Shaq-79
Duncan-70
Barry-66
Bird-64
Oscar-60
Lebron-59
Erving-58
Havlicek-57
Moses-53
West-51
Hakeem-50

I think maybe MVP voting would improve this.
MVP-5
2nd place-4
3rd place-3
4th place-2
5th place-1

Maybe a 1 point for a finals appearance too.

[pauk]

The five points for championship part is what makes that whole ranking system fail miserably, there has to be CONTEXT.... because if its five points for a championship, that means its five points nevertheless of how/who that championship was accumulated by.... meaning Robert Horry > Reggie Miller....

Also when we value a players career using that team accomplishment (rings) we are NEVER looking at the quantity... but the quality....

Five points for MVP is acceptable because the context/quality is always unmistakable, only one special player gets the MVP... but literally anybody can get a Championship, even me and i dont even have to lift a finger.... but i still have 5 points as the MVP guy....?

You can still use this points system, but based on context, categories/exceptions, something like:

Championship as the man/best player & preferably FMVP: 5 Points, because YOU were mostly accountable for that championship.
Championship as a sidekick: 3 Points, because you were honorably accountable.
Championship as a roleplayer: 1 Point, because you were partially accountable or not accountable at all.

[pauk]

NBA MVP awards won (five points each)
NBA championships won as the man (five points each)
NBA championships won as a sidekick (three points each)
NBA championships won as a roleplayer (one point each)
All-Star Games selected to play in (one point each)
All-NBA first-team selections (two points each)
All-defensive first team (one point each)
NBA Finals MVP awards (two points each)
All-Star MVP awards (one point each)
Individual statistical titles (two points each) — restricted to points, rebounds, assists, field goal percentage and free throw percentage, the stats the league has used the longest
Career averages (six points each) — if a player is the NBA career leader in scoring average, rebounds, assists, field goal percentage or free throw percentage
Career playoff averages (five points each) — for each category the player leads


Thats the correct way to go..... try that and your list will be much closer to being correct....

[Mr Feeny]

The five points for championship part is what makes that whole ranking system fail miserably, there has to be CONTEXT.... because if its five points for a championship, that means its five points nevertheless of how/who that championship was accumulated by.... meaning Robert Horry > Reggie Miller....

Also when we value a players career using that team accomplishment (rings) we are NEVER looking at the quantity... but the quality....

.

Agreed. Based on that criteria, Horry would have 35 points

[Deuce Bigalow]

Championship Ring = 5
Finals appearance = 1
Finals MVP = 4
League MVP = 5
2nd place MVP = 4
3rd place MVP = 3
4th place MVP = 2
5th place MVP = 1
All-NBA first team = 2
All-Defensive first team = 1
Season statistical title = 2
Playoff statistical title = 2
Career average leader = 6
Career playoff average leader = 6
Career total leader = 6
Career playoff total leader = 6

MJ-190
Wilt-159
Kareem-149
Russell-153
Magic-130
Cousy-111
Kobe-108
Shaq-104
Duncan-92
Bird-90
Mikan-87
West-82
Oscar-80
Lebron-73
Barry-72
Erving-71
Hakeem-63
Moses-62

[Mr Feeny]

Championship Ring = 5
Finals appearance = 1
Finals MVP = 4
League MVP = 5
2nd place MVP = 4
3rd place MVP = 3
4th place MVP = 2
5th place MVP = 1
All-NBA first team = 2
All-Defensive first team = 1
Season statistical title = 2
Playoff statistical title = 2
Career average leader = 6
Career playoff average leader = 6
Career total leader = 6
Career playoff total leader = 6

MJ-190
Wilt-159
Kareem-149
Russell-153
Magic-130
Cousy-111
Kobe-108
Shaq-104
Duncan-92
Bird-90
Mikan-87
West-82
Oscar-80
Lebron-73
Barry-72
Erving-71
Hakeem-63
Moses-61

Deuce, you're a good poster, but is it possible that your Kobe bias is clouding your judgement a bit? Any list with Bob Cousy and Kobe Bryant ahead of Larry bird and Lebron surely must be flawed on some level. What does your own personal top ten list look like btw?

[Deuce Bigalow]

Deuce, you're a good poster, but is it possible that your Kobe bias is clouding your judgement a bit? Any list with Bob Cousy and Kobe Bryant ahead of Larry bird and Lebron surely must be flawed on some level. What does your own personal top ten list look like btw?

1-MJ
2-Russell
3-Kareem
4-Magic
5-Bird
6-Shaq
7-Kobe
8-Duncan
9-Mikan
10-West
11-Wilt
12-Hakeem
13-Lebron
14-Oscar

[Lebron23]

[QUOTE=pauk]NBA MVP awards won (five points each)
NBA championships won as the man (five points each)
NBA championships won as a sidekick (three points each)
NBA championships won as a roleplayer (one point each)
All-Star Games selected to play in (one point each)
All-NBA first-team selections (two points each)
All-defensive first team (one point each)
NBA Finals MVP awards (two points each)
All-Star MVP awards (one point each)
Individual statistical titles (two points each)

[Lebron23]

and a player with 4x NBA MVP, and 2x Finals MVP will always be better than a player with only 2x NBA Finals MVP, and 1x MVP. That player also have better overall stats in the regular season, playoffs, and in the finals.