Apart from stats, what has CP3 accomplished?

[Kblaze8855]

But he actually has to do stuff....like get past the 2nd round with more than capable teams. Every other player in history is judged on that...not sure why Paul wouldn't be.

There isnt one player in NBa history ive ever heard "Never got past the second round" about. Its a nothing argument.

Who has ever given a shit about a 3rd round loss as opposed to a second? Ive been watching and arguing about basketball all my life and I never once heard the term "Get past the second round" until people on the internet wanted to hate on Chris Paul.

And no people have not been waiting for some arbitrary thing like this to point out greatness. Michael Jordan was called the best ever by more than a few people before he had won anything Chris Paul has not. Same for Oscar Robertson. Larry Bird got GOAT talk as a rookie in the first round of the playoffs. I could show you articles on Kareem being the best center ever as a rookie and second year player before he won.

You know why? Exceptional basketball playing.

All that legacy shit is mostly for places like this where people have gone so far into arguing they dont appreciate the game in front of them anymore.

Chris Paul goes to the WCF his bounce passes wont be any more crisp and his playcalling no more apt. But people who for the most part argue points like:

agreed, before me and my buddy were arguing cp3 vs westbrook i told him call me when cp gets to an nba finals

...will be more impressed....because they are ****ing idiots and dont care about the game they are talking about.

Its little better than my young cousin who says Melo is better than Jordan because "They aint play no defense back in the day...and that ***** Melo too cold!"

When the argument comes down to "Yea but what round did he go out? Second or third?" like that carries the day it might as well be "That ***** too cold!" to me.

Players either win or they dont. Falling 3 rounds short as opposed to 2 has never been what decided if a player is a winner or not and it never should be.

We gotta throw things like that in at least use finals trips....

Not that going to the finals would make Chris Paul anything he isnt right now anyway.....

[flipogb]

What did Charles Barkley accomplish outside of stats?

What did Karl Malone accomplish outside of stats?

What did John Stockton accomplish outside of stats?

What did Patrick Ewing accomplish outside of stats?

What did Steve Nash accomplish outside of stats?

What did Clyde Drexler accomplish outside of stats?

What did Dominque Wilkins accomplish outside of stats?

What did Reggie Miller accomplish outside of stats?

What has Kevin Durant accomplished outside of stats?

getting deep into the playoffs/ getting to the finals

[DMAVS41]

There isnt one player in NBa history ive ever heard "Never got past the second round" about. Its a nothing argument.

Who has ever given a shit about a 3rd round loss as opposed to a second? Ive been watching and arguing about basketball all my life and I never once heard the term "Get past the second round" until people on the internet wanted to hate on Chris Paul.

And no people have not been waiting for some arbitrary thing like this to point out greatness. Michael Jordan was called the best ever by more than a few people before he had won anything Chris Paul has not. Same for Oscar Robertson. Larry Bird got GOAT talk as a rookie in the first round of the playoffs. I could show you articles on Kareem being the best center ever as a rookie and second year player before he won.

You know why? Exceptional basketball playing.

All that legacy shit is mostly for places like this where people have gone so far into arguing they dont appreciate the game in front of them anymore.

Chris Paul goes to the WCF his bounce passes wont be any more crisp and his playcalling no more apt. But people who for the most part argue points like:




...will be more impressed....because they are ****ing idiots and dont care about the game they are talking about.

Its little better than my young cousin who says Melo is better than Jordan because "They aint play no defense back in the day...and that ***** Melo too cold!"

When the argument comes down to "Yea but what round did he go out? Second or third?" like that carries the day it might as well be "That ***** too cold!" to me.

Players either win or they dont. Falling 3 rounds short as opposed to 2 has never been what decided if a player is a winner or not and it never should be.

We gotta throw things like that in at least use finals trips....

Not that going to the finals would make Chris Paul anything he isnt right now anyway.....

The difference is that CP3 isn't that kind of player. Like...you really think is better than Jason Kidd ever was? I sure as hell don't.

It's about where you rate him for that argument...which you obviously missed...or just disregarded. If you rate him somewhere in the top 10 pg's ever...then it's not a valid argument.

But if people start saying he's the best pg ever after Magic...I have some issues giving that title to a guy that hasn't really ever done anything in the playoffs. I haven't seen him play under the pressure of conference finals or nba finals. I haven't seen how he handles deep playoff runs on and off the court. I haven't seen if he can consistently come through in clutch playoff moments...etc.

To act like what happens in the playoffs is meaningless is silly. The game is different. No more feasting against crap teams. Tons of pressure. Physical beatings...etc.

Sorry if I need to see a bit more from Paul before I crown him the best pg ever after Magic.

[Kblaze8855]

Ive noticed you often ask me questions about things I have never even brought up. Or said a word about. Im not sure why.....but I notice you do that like every third time I speak t you. You ask me "So you really think ___?" as if I said I thought it or as if something I replied to was even on the subject. Where do you even get Jason Kidd out of anything ive said?

What in my words brings you to ask me:

"Like...you really think is better than Jason Kidd ever was? I sure as hell don't."


Where does the "really" come from? its as if I said it...and you are now asking me to reiterate it. When I dont think its anywhere in anything I said...in my life.

Its hard to do this when im asked to answer for things so far out of left field. I dont know how anything in here:

What has CP3 done to prove himself to be the #1 PG in the league right now and an all time great?

And my responses to that idiotic question even lead you to ask me some of these questions.

[DMAVS41]

Ive noticed you often ask me questions about things I have never even brought up. Or said a word about. Im not sure why.....but I notice you do that like every third time I speak t you. You ask me "So you really think ___?" as if I said I thought it or as if something I replied to was even on the subject. Where do you even get Jason Kidd out of anything ive said?

What in my words brings you to ask me:

"Like...you really think is better than Jason Kidd ever was? I sure as hell don't."


Where does the "really" come from? its as if I said it...and you are now asking me to reiterate it. When I dont think its anywhere in anything I said...in my life.

Its hard to do this when im asked to answer for things so far out of left field. I dont know how anything in here:





And my responses to that idiotic question even lead you to ask me some of these questions.

I'm asking you questions because you rarely just state your position. You responded to Paul never getting past the 2nd round as a nothing argument. I of course hugely disagree...I think how players play in the playoffs matters a lot more than you do clearly.

Not to mention my response about the 2nd round stuff was in response to your post claiming it just doesn't matter, but it actually really does. You really think if Paul never gets out of the 2nd round for his career....that it shouldn't impact where we place him in history?

I asked about Kidd because I would like to know where you actually rank, because now I am having to say this for the third time;

Where you rank him matters for this discussion. Could you just state where you rank Paul all time as a pg? That shouldn't be too difficult...

[Young X]

Very few people, if any, take Parker over Paul.

So again I don't see the validity of this argument. Nobody is asking for titles from Paul...but at least a conference finals would be nice from a guy that is supposed to be as good as you guys claim.

If getting to the conference finals without context is your berometer than why wouldn't you take Parker over Paul? After all Parker's an all star caliber player who's been to 9 conference finals right? I'm just going by your logic.

[DMAVS41]

Exactly. Thought I was the only person that's gets it.

But you don't get it and you aren't doing that.

Haven't seen you once mention how the current league is basically designed for pg's. It's absurdly easy right now to get anywhere you want on the court as perimeter player...especially a pg.

The game has changed so much...and if "stats" are the basis of your argument...it's horribly flawed because of what a joke the perimeter defense rules have been since 04...

Doesn't seem like you are factoring that shit in at all.

[Al Thornton]

the clippers have never been stacked u dumb ****

[Mass Debator]

All-star MVP

[Kblaze8855]

I rarely state my position either way in an argument because what most often catches my eye is an absurd statement made by someone on one side or the other. I rarely even care which side is right or what they are talking about. Dumb statements catch my eye.

Far as where I rank Paul....you think I have a numbered top 16 point guards list I adjust now and then or what?

Magic Johnson is the best point guard ive seen.

Oscar may have been as good or better. I dont have enough evidence to argue it.

Them aside...

Paul isnt any worse than anyone ive seen with the possible exception of Isiah Thomas who like Paul I felt could just do anything he wanted....

Numbers? Eh.

I dont know how to put Chris Paul 4th and Jason Kidd 7th or what to do with John Stockton.

I could tell you player vs player easier than giving a list.

[DMAVS41]

If getting to the conference finals without context is your berometer than why wouldn't you take Parker over Paul? After all Parker's an all star caliber player who's been to 9 conference finals right? I'm just going by your logic.

It's not without context moron.

It's not my logic at all. Stop acting like Paul has never had a chance to get out of the 2nd round. He has...he just didn't get it done. He either couldn't come through in a game 7 or was playing hurt or whatever excuse you want to throw out.

I don't consider Parker on the level of Paul for all the same reasons you don't. You just under-rate the **** out of all time greats that played in much tougher eras for pg's. Seriously....just look at what happened to Nash after the rules changed. Dude went from being really good....to ****ing all time great. If you want to ignore shit like that...go ahead, but don't come back saying..."nobody gets it"

You probably didn't see a lot of these guys play in their primes...and going off of just stats...and ignoring Paul's inability to do anything of note in the playoffs to date is silly.

I guess in 3 years we'll be crowning Curry as the 4th best pg ever clear cut...LOL

[DMAVS41]

I rarely state my position either way in an argument because what most often catches my eye is an absurd statement made by someone on one side or the other. I rarely even care which side is right or what they are talking about. Dumb statements catch my eye.

Far as where I rank Paul....you think I have a numbered top 16 point guards list I adjust now and then or what?

Magic Johnson is the best point guard ive seen.

Oscar may have been as good or better. I dont have enough evidence to argue it.

Them aside...

Paul isnt any worse than anyone ive seen with the possible exception of Isiah Thomas who like Paul I felt could just do anything he wanted....

Numbers? Eh.

I dont know how to put Chris Paul 4th and Jason Kidd 7th or what to do with John Stockton.

I could tell you player vs player easier than giving a list.

See. That is my point. And I agree by the way.

My response about the 2nd round stuff was that Paul needs something to separate himself from the players after Magic/Oscar...if someone were to say what you did above...I wouldn't bring that up because I don't know how to separate them either, but I think we all agree they are more or less on the same level.

If, however, someone wants to say Paul is the clear cut 2nd or 3rd best pg ever. I think it's more than valid to say that we simply haven't seen enough of him in the playoffs to separate him from the other guys in the top 10 or so.

That was my point.

[rock la familia]

When you have fagge.t haters, hating on you 24/7, you've had to have accomplished something.

[Kblaze8855]

Points are an unusual group to even judge on shit like this. Points dont lead teams to real winning because teams built to suit a point dont play playoff basketball.

It isnt by chance that only 2 teams have been led to the title by a point and one was 6'9'' and played center to win his first one and one was on a team with 5 all stars, the GOAT D to that point, 2 elite rebounders, and an all time great coach.


Want to talk about shit Parker won with Duncan, Westbrook with Durant, Stockton with Malone, Magic with Kareem, Isiah with half the talent in the eastern conference, Oscar with Kareem, Tiny with Larry Bird/Mchale/Parish, Cousy with Russell, Frazier with Reed(73 was probably his team...though Reed won finals MVP anyway)....I have to point out some of those players.

We have to go back to the likes of Bob Davies before a point flat out led a team that wasnt crazy loaded to real success without a better player on the roster. Points dont tend to be the guy to bring together a rag tag group of good players and make a run like a bigman or great enough swingman can do.

One reason all these "But what did he do in the playoffs" posts fall on deaf ears at least to me.

I dont care what Bob Cousy won when he didnt do it till Russell got there and I dont care what Oscar won with Kareem, or Tiny on the Celtics with Larry, or Tony Parker while Duncan is putting in work. I dont care what Westbrook does when Durant is dropping 40 twice a series or what Walt Frazier did with 6 hall of famers one of them the MVP.

I care to know....but im not gonna judge guys who had David West the same way.

Few points have had the big gap between them and their teams next most important player and just made it happen anyway. I dont expect Paul to do any more than most of the elites do when it all really falls on them.


Most of what great points did was while playing off superior players. Paul plays with one ill judge him by those standards.

[DMAVS41]

Points are an unusual group to even judge on shit like this. Points dont lead teams to real winning because teams built to suit a point dont play playoff basketball.

It isnt by chance that only 2 teams have been led to the title by a point and one was 6'9'' and played center to win his first one and one was on a team with 5 all stars, the GOAT D to that point, 2 elite rebounders, and an all time great coach.


Want to talk about shit Parker won with Duncan, Westbrook with Durant, Stockton with Malone, Magic with Kareem, Isiah with half the talent in the eastern conference, Oscar with Kareem, Tiny with Larry Bird/Mchale/Parish, Cousy with Russell, Frazier with Reed(73 was probably his team...though Reed won finals MVP anyway)....I have to point out some of those players.

We have to go back to the likes of Bob Davies before a point flat out led a team that wasnt crazy loaded to real success without a better player on the roster. Points dont tend to be the guy to bring together a rag tag group of good players and make a run like a bigman or great enough swingman can do.

One reason all these "But what did he do in the playoffs" posts fall on deaf ears at least to me.

I dont care what Bob Cousy won when he didnt do it till Russell got there and I dont care what Oscar won with Kareem, or Tiny on the Celtics with Larry, or Tony Parker while Duncan is putting in work. I dont care what Westbrook does when Durant is dropping 40 twice a series or what Walt Frazier did with 6 hall of famers one of them the MVP.

I care to know....but im not gonna judge guys who had David West the same way.

Few points have had the big gap between them and their teams next most important player and just made it happen anyway. I dont expect Paul to do any more than most of the elites do when it all really falls on them.


Most of what great points did was while playing off superior players. Paul plays with one ill judge him by those standards.

That would make sense if I was doing that.

I think you have it backwards. It's the pro Paul side claiming certainty about him being better than guys like Kidd and Stockton. I'm not claiming that Kidd and Stockton are clearly better than Paul.

I'm saying that Paul hasn't done enough to separate himself from guys like that. When I evaluate them as just players...I don't look at Paul and see a player clearly better than Kidd was. In fact, I'd rather have Kidd as my guard in vacuum.

My argument is that if Paul wants to separate himself from that group...he has to do more. Which I think is more than fair.

But I'm still confused as to what the real argument is here...everyone outside of blatant trolls seem to have Paul somewhere in the top 10 pg's of all time.

I'd probably have him in the top 6 or so honestly if you made me rank them.

So who is really under-rating him? Who is really denying his greatness?